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MTA bus is wonderful
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psa188




Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 25
Location: San Jose

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: MTA bus is wonderful Reply with quote

http://www.metro-magazine.com/t_newspick.cfm?id=9068315
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GBL Rebel
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Location: Long Island, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a problem with this article. What it says I DO NOT doubt. What it don't say is what my problem is. It misses the part where NYCDOT screwed the PBL operators out of business. No new buses, no real service changes and limited man power. It don't say how MTA Bus is getting everything they want as NYCDOT is not giving MTAB orders. GBL had to ask for anything it wanted done, and most of the time was told no. MTAB is allowed to do as they wish. I think that makes a big difference between the two.
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petabread




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GBL Rebel I somewhat agree with you. I say somewhat meaning that yes NYCDOT didn't help the pbls much but Green Bus and QSC sucked for at least 20 years before the takeover when NYCDOT gave them new buses. So in a way, maybe in the later years it would have been better, it didn't happen that way. The fact that the MTA can do what it wants is what makes it better.
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psa188




Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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Location: San Jose

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:56 am    Post subject: MTAB Reply with quote

GBL Rebel wrote:
There is a problem with this article. What it says I DO NOT doubt. What it don't say is what my problem is. It misses the part where NYCDOT screwed the PBL operators out of business. No new buses, no real service changes and limited man power. It don't say how MTA Bus is getting everything they want as NYCDOT is not giving MTAB orders. GBL had to ask for anything it wanted done, and most of the time was told no. MTAB is allowed to do as they wish. I think that makes a big difference between the two.


Indifferent ovesight by NYCDOT was a definite problem in the last decade of PBL operations. Unfortuantly we'll never know how things might have played out had NYCDOT been more proactive.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to say that one factor in the deteriortation of the PBL's and their services in the years prior to takeover may well have been that continuous threat of takeover! (it was like a 'Sword of Damocles' hanging over their heads!).

I mean. if you knew that you were to be foreclosed from your home in the near future but didn't know exactly when, would you continue to manicure your lawn, and do all the other chores you would normally do to keep your house nice looking?

If, on the other hand, GBL Rebel is correct (and I have every reason to believe he is) when he says that the PBL operator's pleas to NYCDOT for assistance fell upon deaf ears, then you could say that most of the blame for poor services could have been placed right at the doorsteps of the city!

If what was PBL service is still tangled up, maybe it's time to think out of the box!; A number of TA's across the country including Los Angeles are now delegating some of their operations back to private parties, and it seems to be working well and creating a much better rapport with ridership!

It's food for thought!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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bus317




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green always sucked. When I was a kid, I would walk from Kew Gardens train station to Jam. Ave. before a Q10 would pass me.
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petabread




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The threat of a takeover was only for a few years starting when Mayor Mike made the treat in 2002. Queens Surface sucked long before that, throughout the the 90s I could never catch a Q65 at anytime of the day. Yes it could be DOTs fault but thats why a takeover was a good reason. As far as other TAs delegating responsibility to private lines, there is nothing wrong with a private company if it works. In NYC the way they were set up to have to go through DOT first was a waste since they didn't care much. This is what made the privates in NYC crap, my question that I don't understand and someone with knowledge maybe explain is why didn't the private companies try to separate themselves from DOT. In a way that they weren't limited.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petabread,

I can't disagree with anything you have said, but I can certainly add to it;

First, however, let me give you a little history;

When the Brooklyn & Manhattan Transit Company (BMT) gave its El and trolley operations in Brooklyn to the city in 1940 thus creating another division of the 'Board of Transportation', there were no provisions that would have deemed that transfer as temporary.

However, when the New York City Transit Authority and the Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority (MABSTOA) were created in the early sixties to take over the operations of the Omnibus Corporation and Surface Transportation respectively, there was a stipulation that the authorities would only remain in effect until new private operators could be found - the city really didn't want to extend there surface operations beyond Brooklyn and Staten Island - of course, the rest is history!

The basic problem with the PBL's that started as far back as the mid seventies was the refusal on the part of the Public Service Commission to grant them the fare increases they needed to remain viable!

I can only speak for Green Line when I say that that was a company that took pride in their operations, and the last thing that Mr. Cooper wanted to live to see was the degradatioin of a business that he worked so hard to make successful!

In retrospect, maybe he should have gone the same route as North Shore Bus Company did in 1947 when they walked into city hall and threw their franchise agreements at the Mayor and walked away!

It certainly was a mistake to try to run a company in the 'red' for so many years!

But pride had a great deal to do with it, and that's something that isn't easily discarded.

Unfortunately, I think the present economic climate would obviate any re-privatization of the large segment of service that the PBL's represented.

Mr.Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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GBL Rebel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petabread wrote:
The threat of a takeover was only for a few years starting when Mayor Mike made the treat in 2002. Queens Surface sucked long before that, throughout the the 90s I could never catch a Q65 at anytime of the day. Yes it could be DOTs fault but thats why a takeover was a good reason. As far as other TAs delegating responsibility to private lines, there is nothing wrong with a private company if it works. In NYC the way they were set up to have to go through DOT first was a waste since they didn't care much. This is what made the privates in NYC crap, my question that I don't understand and someone with knowledge maybe explain is why didn't the private companies try to separate themselves from DOT. In a way that they weren't limited.


Petabread--

Threats of takeovers were happening when I started in the late 90's. My grandfather who drove for GBL heard these rumor in the 50's-60's. Yes I agree with you that IF NYCDOT stepped aside and MTA gave orders to the PBL's might have been better for riders. I'm not saying the PBL's bear no fault on being taken over BUT NYCDOT did not help them at all. NYCDOT was holding $173 million dollars toward the purchase of new buses, which that sh*thead, Mayor Mike, would not release for buses until a takeover happened.
In short-- guess what you would be riding instead of Orion VII's had a takeover not happened- Thats right, those wonderful 1985 GMC RTS's with one million miles on them!!!!!
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ripta42
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petabread wrote:
...my question that I don't understand and someone with knowledge maybe explain is why didn't the private companies try to separate themselves from DOT. In a way that they weren't limited.


Even though NYCDOT didn't come through with the capital to purchase new equipment, the operating companies were guaranteed a profit under the franchise agreements. It was of no benefit to the owners to break away from NYCDOT.
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shortlineMCI



Age: 54
Joined: 07 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another reason for this sweeping take over of the PBLs is that our lovely business man of a mayor walked in to companies like Command, which had the worst service records, ugliest most beat up pieces of crap buses which contributed to the take over.

So instead crashed down the doors of NYBS, with the arms swinging and all guns firing, and completely decimated probably the most efficient and smoothest run bus company probably in the United States and drove like new buses into a 9000 horse power metal shredder, dislocated tens and tens of drivers, causing them even physical illnesses.

If only bloomin bloomberg walked into NYBS first, oh how I wonder how things might have been different.

Maybe Coach USA should have taken over instead. For those of you who don't know about Coach USA and just how big it is they make the MTA look like a tiny mom and pop operation and the Coach USA employees don' t have any real complaints. A few smattering of whining in our driver's room here and there of course.

Just a thought.


Last edited by shortlineMCI on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GBL Rebel et al,

You're absolutely right!

When I drove summer relief at Green Line in 59, 60 and 61 there was already talk of takover by the city!

So nothing here is really new!

BTW; I believe Coach USA is now part of 'First Transit' along with Laidlaw and anything else they can grab.

The next thing you know they'll own Greyhound.

Check out their website!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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shortlineMCI



Age: 54
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. L...

Thus far I haven't seen the little Coach USA stickers on the sides of the Greyhound buses, which usually is a prelude of a taking over, although I will post that if I see this. I do see Greyhound buses on a regular basis and the small Laidlaw stickers in the back mostly.

By the way, Monsey Trails had been approached by Coach USA on a number of occasions, but Monsey Trails would have no part of this. Monsey Trails, (or Monsey Tours as it were) runs a very specific type of bus service that caters only to highly religious Orthodox and Lubovitch clientel.

Monroe Bus, and KJ Express (Monsey Trails is their parent company) refused the offer too.
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petabread




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone with the historical information. I didn't know a lot of it so it is very insightful. However, the fact remains that NYCDOT didn't help the PBLs and the PBLs suffered for it and so in my opinion they weren't good enough. Was there actual talk or rumors of a takeover between 61-the late 90s?
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GBL Rebel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petabread wrote:
Was there actual talk or rumors of a takeover between 61-the late 90s?


There was talk of it but there really was no substance behind it. After that business d**ch*bag got in as mayor, the threat seemed more real.

HINT- Wanna solve the ***, buy vowels!!!
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