BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's two NJT "RTS Jrs." in Atlantic City.

I know they were not well-received on the #751, which served several several Bergen County malls; as buses on this line often became crowded and it was SRO, these little buses were ill-suited for service on this route (back in the 90's, I can recall ex-NJDOT "Dangerfields" on this run)

I, of course, always liked the "Big Boy" RTS, but was never fond of their "little brothers".......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?157349

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?157354

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[W.B. Fishbowl]

I shudder to think of what a "Jr." version of Grumman's 870 - later revamped as Flxible Metro - would have looked like, let alone what systems would have used such if they had existed.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Sidenote on NJT's 30" (RTS Jr.):

NJT subleased (and still does) its buses to outside contractors, and the "'RTS Jr." were no exceptions.

ACADEMY operated NJT's "RTS Jr."* in the Bergen County area; those I recall, and I had mentioned this preciously, were those operating on the #751 (ex-TNJ B-1)

This route was descended from the old PSNJ "HUDSON RIVER" trolley line (Edgewater-Paterson) which was converted to buses in 1938.

In fact, there were footnotes in the TNJ timetables that mentioned this.

I also remember seeing bicycle racks carried on the front; the sub-contracted NABI's of today are likewise equipped.

"NYO"

*These little buses seemed to be popular with smaller operators, or in feeder service; a number of properties purchased them.

However, on runs like the #751, they were ill-suited for the heavy loadings that were the norm on this route, serving several malls.......

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

From: RAPID TRANSIT SERIES BUSES" (McCausland):

"30 FOOT COACHES"

".......although it was possible, GM avoided building the RTS as a 30' model for a number of reasons. For example, the 30' TDH-3301 had been a poor seller......."

".......TMC never pursued the idea, either. As the majority of transit authorities used 40' buses, there was hardly a business case in such a configuration. By 1997, NOVA was convinced to the contrary......:

".......since short-length buses became popular for shuttle services and light-transit operations, NOVA felt that they could justify building a 30' RTS......."

.....thirty-foot RTS's were offered in both 96- and 102-inch width variants; the wide front door was only available on the latter........"

"....a large number of 30' RTS's went to New Jersey Transit and also to the Rhode Island Public Transit Authority. The last 30' model was built in 2001, and shipped to Puerto Rico......"

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an undated photo of an AVIS 30' RTS at JFK......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156357

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

....it is also important to remember that, prior to the introduction of the 3501 and 3502 models, there were many series of both YELLOW and GM "shorty" Old Looks, that were quite popular with many operators across the country.

Among these "shorty" models were the 2708, 3102, 3202, and the 3207.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

"Shorty" Old Looks.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154524

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154523

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153597

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

....even if (scary to contemplate!) a 30' 870 had been made available, I can only see that this model would have only been of interest to, perhaps, very small town operators, or airport shuttles.

That the 870 itself was a "hard luck bus" is indeed an understatement.

But, one cannot help but wonder what MIGHT have been, had the GRUMMANS not suffered from cracking frames (and other issues)

Could these buses eventually have made a solid niche for themselves, had the fates been kinder?

Consider, also, the success later enjoyed by the Flex "METROS".....

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Many eons ago, TRIBORO once operated "shorty" buses............

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154317

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154312

(courtesy: nysubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

From: "RAPID TRANSIT SERIES BUSES" (McCausland)......

"........the New York City Transit Authority tested a Series 03 in 1979, bat, in the end, awarded a contact for 837 40' 870A's to FLXIBLE, owned at this point by NORTHROP-GRUMMAN......."

".......these buses began arriving in New York in early 1980, but did not last long. What was to happen to these buses was something of a soap opera......."

".......by November, 1980, all 870's were ordered off the street, as severe cracks were found in the rear A-frames of nearly 39 buses. Thinking this was just an isolated incident, GRUMMAN ignored the cracks until the number of cracks-some from Los Angeles buses-increased......"

".....GRUMMAN offered to repair the buses at no cost, but the damage was already done. NYCTA cancelled the order, and refused to pay for the remaining 200 buses in the contract......."

"......in the meantime, buses that were slated for scrapping were brought out of retirement, while a number of buses were borrowed from Washington DC to fill the void left by the sidelined GRUMMANS......."

Now......had the "Em-Tee-Yay" had purchased the RTS from the get-go, as did some of the "indy" outfits.....

"NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

But then . . . this is the price of relying too much on one manufacturer for a sustained period of time. In this case, only buying Flxible "New Looks" a.k.a. "Dangerfields" from 1973-74 up to 1977. The dangers of putting too much eggs in one basket.

No doubt this made one long for the days when, in 1964-65, 'Tee-Yay' got Flxies whilst MaBSTOA stayed loyal to GM and their Fishbowls - 210 of which as produced in that period had what we now call 'batwings'.

And yet, in the initial period of taking Grummans off the streets, not one of the 1964-65 Flx 'Dangerfields' saw action on Manhattan 'Tee-Yay' routes. It has been confirmed that none of those were ever assigned to MaBSTOA routes - not even the lesser ones in either borough that formed parts of their name.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

As always, appreciate the always-detailed input.

It would seem, then, even then, the "Dangerfields" were not getting any respect.

Things were (IMHO) quite interesting through at least the first half of the 1960's, when the "Tee-Yay" and MaBSTOA were operating the buses of three builders, GM, FLXIBLE, and MACK.

If the "Dangerfields" garnered little respect during their many years of faithful service, it would seem that, as the curtain began to fall, that they received even less respect, if such a thing was possible.....

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

...........it is a very good thing indeed (IMHO), that, when the 870's debuted, articulated transit buses had not yet made their appearances in "Noo Yawk".

I shudder to think of what frame issues might have reared their ugly heads had articulated 870's been built.

It woulds have been interesting, however, had the "Em-Tee-Yay" had purchased a fleet of articulated CLASSIC artics.

Initially, there was an order for 14 CLASSIC artics for METRO TRANSIT (Halifax); at the time, there was also a lot of interest coming from US operators.....

"NYO"