BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

IMHO, I've long believed that the style of bus (and subway car) numbering through the years is a study in itself, and, most often, overlooked by all except the most astute transit buffs/historians.

In London, bus numbering was quite a bit different than here in the States; these buses, traditionally, carried a fleet number consisting of a type designation and a serial number.

These numbers were carried on the sides of the bonnet (hood); examples:

"ST922"

"RT4712"

"RM1971"

With the wartime "utility" buses (GUY/DAIMLER/BRISTOL, etc.) numbering would be as follows:

"G138"

"D132"

"B28"

There were also numbering variations with these "utility" types; some buses also carried a painted number on the rear dome of the upper deck, while many other buses did not......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

See:

www.countrybus.org/RT/RT.htm

This is a history page on the "RT" (there is also a links menu on this page)

Note the coloured "RT" drawing at the top right of the page; the bus' fleet number* is clearly seen on the side of the bonnet......

*Note the small (removable) number plates under the first nearside window; on both sides of the buses, these metal plates were carried, which displayed both the garage* code and the "run" number.

Example:

"B5" ("B" was the code for "BATTERSEA" Garage; "5" designated the run number)

"CF12" ("CF" was the code for "CHALK FARM" Garage; "12" designated the run number.

*In 1946, the first full year of renewed services after the War, LT operated over 80 garages; even at that, many buses had to be parked in the streets overnight, near existing depots, as a number of garages had been destroyed during the War.

During the 1950's, a number of new "LT" garages opened; some of these buildings replaced facilities damaged/destroyed during the War, while others replaced older facilities (some of these were former tram depots; the last London trams ran in 1952).....



"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Of all of the wartime "utility" buses, the GUY was an especial favorite of the bus enthusiasts of that era, and with the historians of today (again, one can easily see the differences between these buses and any that ran for FACCo).......

www.countrybus.org/Guy/G2.htm

www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?p=34092 *

*(On the left-hand side of this page, note the extensive links listing of chassis manufacturers, body builders, and operators)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

One instance where FACCo faced a clearance issue (albeit on a much smaller scale) like the "LGOC" and "LT" was having double-deckers (Queen Marys) of a lesser height than the rest of the fleet, in order to make the clearances encountered by traveling under the El on the Queens route.

In London, the height issue was on a much larger scale; several classes of double-deckers throughout the year were dubbed "tunnel buses" for operations through the Blackwall Tunnel.

This problem was met in 1927 (when closed-top buses were beginning to appear) by equipping some of the the "NS"-class with contoured domed roofs, to be able to pass through the constricted confine of the tunnel.

This caused upper-deck seating to revert back to the back-to-back "knifeboard" seating once used on the horse-drawn omnibuses.

This also required the lowering of the upper level floor, which, of course, reduced headroom downstairs.

Later on, a group of "STL" types would be so altered for Tunnel operation, until the roadway of the tunnel was finally rebuilt and lowered, allowing for the passage of "regular" double-deckers.

Then there were the "low bridge" buses through the years, which were so named because they had to pass beneath low railway overpasses......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Brief mention here on the "tunnel buses" of years past; in later years, special "STL" types ran through the tunnel, before the tunnel was rebuilt to accommodate normal-clearance double-deckers........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Buses_route_108

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwall_Tunnel

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London's "RLH" fleet ("Low Bridge" buses)........

www.countrybus.org/RLH/RLH.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mention must be made here of the the single-deck "RF" types that replaced older "T" and "Q" types in the 1950's.

These once-familiar and versatile buses were once as commonplace on London-area streets as Old Looks and Fishbowls were here at home (note multiple links on left of page)

It is also interesting to note that while batwing Fishbowls, here at home, carried large roller curtains on the sides, the "RF's" (like many of the single-decker British buses of that day) carried rear roller sign boxes.

Like the older buses they replaced, the stalwart "RF's" originally were manned by two-man crews.........

www.red-rf.com

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

On double-deckers......

Though 5th Avenue has long been associated with the now-iconic (though now long gone) double-decker, other American cities have also used them, although in number far, far less than in London.

Other American cities that have used double-deckers in the past included:

Chicago

Baltimore

Detroit

Cleveland

Philadelphia

Atlanta

Los Angeles

CHICAGO MOTOR COACH, at one time, also operated at least one six-axle YELLOW double-decker in the later 1920's; like the London's "LT's" and the SURFACE double-deckers, this six-wheeler had an enclosed top.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The famed LGOC "B"-type, thought to be the first mass-produced bus, by 1913, dominated the street of London, with nearly 2500 in service.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGOC_B-type

Though these early motor buses were more or less similar to those operated by FACCo, they were decidedly more old fashioned, as, by this time, FACCo buses were already equipped with roller sign boxes, whereas their London counterparts were using wooden signs (it would not be well into the 1920's that roller curtain boxes began to appear on London's buses)

See also*:

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155413

*Though not too many years separate ex-FACCo #303 and the LGOC "B" (roller sign box nonwithstanding) the FACCo bus has a decidedly more "modern" appearance........

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

IMHO, I've long felt that the "toughest" looking buses ever operated by FACCo were the postwar MACKS; these hulking buses indeed had a tough, swaggering, "get-outta-my-way" look to them that was most apparent.

In London, the streamlined, single-deck "Q" types had a tough, no-nonsense look to them as well, and entered service in the 1930's, quite modern for the day, with their flat fronts.

These once-commonplace buses ran into the 1950's, when they were replaced by the new "RF" types.

A number of these hard-working buses found their way overseas when they were retired, with some even going into military service, as well as serving again as public transport vehicles (Tripoli, Malta, Cypress, and Rangoon all eventually saw a number of ex-London buses by the 1950's).........

www.countrybus.org/Q/Q.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

There were also a handful of double-deck "Q"-types (I enjoy picturing one of these handsome machines in FACCo paint!)

www.countrybus.org/Q/Q2.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Double-deck clearances.....

In 1919, when Detroit was looking to establish a "boulevard bus" operation similar to FACCo, it was found that the standard FACCo type "A" was too high for that city' clearances.

Starting in 1921, FACCo produced the type "L" (Low), for a 55-passenger double-decker distinguished by an underslung drive shaft.

Regarding clearances, there were, for many years certain London routes that could only be traveled by single-deck buses; for example, the buses that ran on the #109 not only had to contend with low railway bridges, but, also, the huge and ornate Chislehurst Arch, built in 1860's.

This building once comprised of a water tower and two sets of houses; until it was demolished in the 1960's, only single-deck buses could operate on any route that passed beneath the arch......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

A FACCo "Queen Mary" and the LEYLAND (MaBSTOA) demo:

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156381

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156314

Note only did FACCo operate one-man double-decker decades before LT did, but also, introduced double-deckers with rear doors; again, this did not become commonplace in London until the 1970's........

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Buses such as the Daimler "DMS" represented the future for LT, setting the stage for one-man, rear-door double deckers, in the 1970's.

Unfortunately, these modern buses were quite problematic, and had more than their share of issues, as will be learned from this page.......

www.countrybus.org/DMS/DMS1.htm

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

"LT's" Metropolitan "MD", introduced in 1975.

www.countrybus.org/Metro/MD.htm

These new buses, unlike the now-classic (and long-lived) "RT" and "RM" types, had very short service lives in Olde London Towne (and look how many years FACCo's "Queen Marys" lasted in service!)