BusTalk

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traildriver:

Recall, also, when GREYHOUND buses used the Ferry Building as a terminal for its Bay Area commuter runs.

I've seen a number of 1950's-era photos showing large numbers of Old Looks lined up at the Ferry Building, awaiting the next rush hour.

Recall, also, that GREYHOUND gained a good number of new daily riders in 1941, when the NWP shut down its electric commuter train network (as well as their connecting ferryboats at Sausalito)

Only problem was, that the buses did not have the tremendous carrying capacity of the electric trains or the ferryboats.

The NWP's boats took a half-hour to make the trip from the Sausalito terminal to the Ferry Building, not all that much longer than the time it takes for a Staten Island boat to travel from Whitehall Street to St. George today.

Like the long-gone "KEY" ferry pier, St. George still serves as a busy and important transfer point between passenger-only ferries (recall, the "KEY" boats did not carry vehicles) and electric trains.

When the NWP's electrics were abandoned in 1941, GREYHOUND purchased a group of new "Old Look" YELLOWS; even prior to the abandonment of the NWP electric trains and ferries, GREYHOUND had already established suburban service in Marin...........

"NYO"

["SAVE THE TRAINS AND FERRIES"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

With the notable exception of the Staten Island Ferry, I have found it interesting to note that, in both New York and San Francisco, none of the passenger-only ferries in operation are double-ended (the last such ferries crossed San Francisco Bay in 1958)

IMHO, a double-ended ferry would eliminate the need for boats having to back out of a slip, turn around, and then proceed with its voyage.

In NY Harbor, ever since passenger-only ferries ("NY WATERWAY") began operating in the later 1980's, all boats have been single-ended.

Outside of the Governors Island ferry, vehicular ferries no longer exist in NY Harbor; and, as noted previously, have not operated in San Francisco since the 1950's........

"NYO"

["NEXT BOAT"]

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Links of interest...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferries_of_San_Francisco_Bay

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Ferry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island_Ferry *

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NY_Waterway

["THE CIVILIZED WAY TO COMMUTE"]

* More like "Little Toot"(!!)

(Note: During the Treasure Island Exposition of 1939 and 1940, the "KEY" temporarily re-instated electric train and ferry service to and from the old "KEY" ferry pier, to the Treasure Island Exposition)

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Gates...........

Commonplace in the East Bay area (but not elsewhere) sliding (air operated) mesh gates were used instead of vestibule doors on the SP's "Red Electrics" and KEY's pre-Bridge Unit cars, as well as the steel MU's operated by the NWP.

Interestingly, the gates used on the KEY's electrics were "half gates"; those used on the "Red Electrics" and NWP steels used "full gates".

When a number of ex-SP/IER/NWP electrics went to Los Angeles to operate on the PE (where they became known as the famous "Blimps"), in their early days, these cars operated with their mesh gates from their San Francisco days.

These were soon replaced with standard vestibule doors; trolley poles replaced the pantographs on the former "Red Electrics" and the third rail shoes on the ex-NWP cars..............

"NYO"

["I.E.R."]

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Oakland Mole (SP)........

For a terminal as busy as it was, serving both transcontinental trains and a network of electric commuter trains, it is odd indeed that this busy facility was equipped with only one ferry slip (the DL&W's Hoboken terminal had six slips; the CNJ's Jersey City terminal had four)

Needless to say, with traffic as heavy as it was (pre-1939) no time could be wasted in loading/unloading the ferries as quickly as possible (this was no easy task during the heavy rush hours!)

After 1939, with only through trains serving Oakland Mole, the "dwell time" of a ferry in a slip was not as crucial as it had been during the commuter years, although the SP was still QUITE strict regarding its timetables.

As I had mentioned earlier, Oakland Mole was quite different from the rail/ferry terminals on the New Jersey side of the Hudson.

There were separate gangways/ramps for passengers of through trains, and the commuters heading for the electrics, and upper deck passengers boarded and left the boats via hydraulic gangplanks lowered to the port and starboard sides of the upper deck, in a fashion totally unheard of in New York Harbor..............

"NYO"

["TO ELECTRIC TRAINS"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Paddlewheels and "props".............

When the Staten Island Ferry (now under City ownership) underwent a massive modernization project in 1905, all of the new ferries in New York harbor were propeller craft; sidewheels were only to be found on the older boats, the last of which would disappear by the early 1940's (with the exception of the SIRT sidewheelers on the Tottenville-Perth Amboy crossing, which were not retired until 1948)

On San Francisco Bay, however, walking-beam ferries lasted into the 1950's (the very last was the SP's famed "EUREKA", today a popular attraction at the Hyde St, Pier (San Francisco Maritime Museum)

For many years, the KEY's boats were the most modern on the Bay; their distinctive orange boats had been equipped with propellers since service began in 1903.

In 1905, the City of New York re-equipped the SI fleet with five new boats (the handsome "FIVE BOROUGHS" class); the older boats, the oldest of which had walking beams, were sold off for further service, or were scrapped.

The St. George terminal was upgraded for upper deck loading; a totally new terminal was built at Whitehall Street (South Ferry), also equipped for upper deck loading.

The new Manhattan terminal also allowed for the direct, under cover transfer of passengers from the several elevated lines that then terminated at South Ferry, to the upper decks of the boats..............

"NYO"

["DEPARTMENT OF PLANT & STRUCTURES"]

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Upper deck loading...........

The PRR was the first to adopt upper deck passenger loadings in New York Harbor (1890); this not only included its massive Exchange Place terminal in Jersey City, but, also, at its Manhattan terminals at Cortlandt Street and Desbrosses Street.

The DL&W's new Hoboken Terminal (1907) had a monolithic upper ferry concourse equipped with several magnificent Tiffany skylights, lofty ceilings, classical columns and marble floors.

The DL&W's 1888 Barclay Street terminal was also upgraded/remodeled for upper deck loading.

Neither the ERIE (Pavonia Avenue, Jersey City) or the NYCRR's WEST SHORE (Weehawken) utilized upper deck loading.

When the CNJ's Jersey City terminal (1888) was expanded and modernized between 1912 and 1914, the new (4 slips) ferry terminal also had upper deck loading.

As mentioned previously, the Staten Island Ferry began using upper deck loading in 1905, and still does, to this day...................

"NYO"

["TO UPPER DECKS OF FERRY BOATS"]

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Upper deck ferry loading (for vehicles)

Prior to 1950, some (but not all) MICHIGAN STATE FERRIES boats loaded autos on the upper deck, via elevators.

This ungainly practice caused many delays, as only one auto at a time could use the elevators.

Newer boats (though still single-ended) loaded vehicles. in the more conventional way, via the main deck.

The older vessels loaded from port/starboard; the newer single-deck boats loaded from the stern.

For many years, London's historic Woolwich Ferry also loaded vehicles (cars/lorries/buses) via the upper deck; here, however, the approach ramps to the slips were elevated, allowing vehicles to enter and leave the boats at level, via hydraulic gangplanks.........

"NYO"

["FERRY TRAFFIC ONLY"]

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The "BARBERI" boats...........

When these two then "state of the art" ferries entered the SI fleet in the early 1980's, they had the distinction of being the only double-ended passenger-only ferries built for service in New York Harbor.

Ironically, there were plans (never carried out) to convert the boats of the "MISS NEW YORK"-class to all-passenger configuration, by replacing their vehicular gangways with passenger cabins, back in the 1960's (this was after the delivery of the new "KENNEDY"-class diesels)............

"NYO"

["NEXT BOAT"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here is an interesting article (w/photos) on the Washington State Ferries.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_State_Ferries

["TACOMA"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's a historic San Francisco Bay ferryboat with a most interesting story to tell.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferryboat_Santa_Rosa

["NORTHWESTERN PACIFIC"]

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On this day (11/22) in 1967 the ERIE-LACKAWANNA stopped running their fleet of ancient ferryboats between Hoboken and Barclay Street-the last few weeks of operation saw only two boats in operation; the rest of the fleet were already OOS and were docked at Hoboken awaiting their fates-none of these elegant turn-of-the-century boats are with us today------Your's Truly is QUITE grateful for all of his happy childhood recollections of these grand old ferryboats-----------------"NYO"

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Just heard on the news today that snack concessions are once again (after a four-year hiatus) returning to the Staten Island boats: now here's an interesting bit of Staten Island Ferry history: the first snack bars began appearing on the SI boats just after WW2; by the 1950s all boats in the fleet were equipped with concession stands (in Your's Truly's long-departed childhood days-how well he recall the tasty franks and icy orange drinks on board (probably cost 30 cents for the two!) Ahhhh the good ol' days------- "NYO"

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"Bootblacks" were plying their trade aboard the SI boats prior to the turn of the 20th century; sadly-as fewer and fewer fellows dressed for work and no longer wore dress shoes by the 1990s-the "boot blacks" were soon to fade away into Staten Island Ferry history------in 2003-the last "boot black" shined his last shoes (these fellows were also to be found plying their trade aboard the trans-Hudson railroad ferries until their final runs in 1967--------"NYO"

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Interesting that the boats of the "DONGAN HILLS" class (retired 1965) were the last boats in the SI fleet to feature wooden superstructures; the last ferries to operate in New York Harbor with wooden superstructures were the ex-DL&W boats (E-L) which ran to Barclay Street until late 1967---on the CNJ-the only boat to be built with a steel superstructure was the "ELIZABETH" (originally-this boat was the "LAKEWOOD"-and was built with a wooden superstructure-which was destroyed in a blaze while in drydock back in the early 1950s)-----"NYO"