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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2423
Location: New York, New York, USA
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 Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Many Sloan's over the years have been rebranded as Gristedes - and a good amount of those stores (probably the one at 3rd and 17th) have closed down. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| W.B. Fishbowl wrote: |
Many Sloan's over the years have been rebranded as Gristedes - and a good amount of those stores (probably the one at 3rd and 17th) have closed down. |
W.B.:
I have heard many conflicting reports of the neighborhoods served by the 3rd Avenue El; some say that transportation in the area (regarding the replacement MaBSTOA buses) was not "up to par", when compared to the now-gone elevated trains.
Others say the neighborhoods were in decline prior to the El's closing, while others say the area declined further, after the El trains stopped running (I've heard similar views regarding the demolition of the old BMT Jamaica El, in the late 1970's)
How were area bus routes adapted after the El closed; were existing services enhanced?
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I just came across this photo (1980) of Fishbowl #3721 at Parsons & Jamaica; note the soon-to-be-removed columns that once supported the old BMT Jamaica El, which closed a few years earlier.....
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154291
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2423
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | I have heard many conflicting reports of the neighborhoods served by the 3rd Avenue El; some say that transportation in the area (regarding the replacement MaBSTOA buses) was not "up to par", when compared to the now-gone elevated trains.
Others say the neighborhoods were in decline prior to the El's closing, while others say the area declined further, after the El trains stopped running (I've heard similar views regarding the demolition of the old BMT Jamaica El, in the late 1970's)
How were area bus routes adapted after the El closed; were existing services enhanced? |
Well, Manhattan was a different kettle o' fish from the Bronx, for sure. I am aware that various real estate groups and businesses were lobbying for the removal of the 'el', and I have the By the El book by Lawrence Stelter where a Socony-Mobil executive was quoted as saying their new building on 3rd and 42nd was waited to be completed until after the el was gone (we're talkin' 1955, folks). We know that five years after the el vanished from Manhattan's Third Avenue, it and Lexington Avenue were both converted to one-way traffic which led to major bus service changes on both thoroughfares (i.e. NYCO's #3 Lexington Avenue route basically repurposed as a short-turn M-101 branch running from 125th to 23rd Street). And Third Avenue in Manhattan, after the el came down, basically became office tower city in the Midtown section for sure.
But it is also no doubt that when the Bronx part came down, things took a turn for the worse over there in more ways than one, transportation-wise and otherwise, exacerbating a decline which had already been underway in the el's final years. Even the Bx-55 was morphed into something else, especially after 1984 when every other route's number was switched around. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Great post; appreciate your views, as always.
Yes, sadly, the South Bronx was already in decline during the lat years of the El, and, as you stated, the area formerly served by the El decayed even further.
I recall reading, many years ago, that some long-time residents along 3rd Avenue (Manhattan) actually moved away AFTER the El came down, as they could not get used to the (relative) quite after the trains stopped rumbling past their windows at all hours!
But, you are right, the Manhattan portion of the El was, indeed, a "whole different kettle 'o fish", in so many ways......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Earlier, I'd mentioned the old BMT Jamaica El; in this 1977 photo, we see a train of "Museum" Standards at 168th St., on a fantrip.
Look VERY closely under the complex ganglia of steelwork, and you can just spot the front of a Flex New Look.......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6397
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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The gaunt, rusting remains of the former Jamaica El loom above the street in this 1985 view at Sutphin Blvd (note RTS in distance)......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?31907
(courtesy: nycsubway.,org) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22673
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Parons & Jamaica, 1980.
Here, Flex #4619, holding down a B22 run, is in the company of a gaunt and lonely-looking remnant of the old BMT Jamaica El.
Note, also, the classic "DON'T WALK" sign affixed to the old el column (a 1960's "BUS STOP" sign (w/Fishbowl) can also just be glimpsed, if you look carefully)....
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153930
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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