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Roosevelt Island Tram/QB Ry/Subways/Els
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at those photos of the original R-16, it amazes me how the subway trains ran for so many years with “feeble” headlights, which were basically clear lensed marker lights.
It was around 1960 or so, when new trains came with sealed beam headlights, and older trains were retro-fitted with them…
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Looking at those photos of the original R-16, it amazes me how the subway trains ran for so many years with “feeble” headlights, which were basically clear lensed marker lights.
It was around 1960 or so, when new trains came with sealed beam headlights, and older trains were retro-fitted with them…


traildriver:

Originally, it was thought that subway trains did not need headlights; tunnel lighting was deemed sufficient in-between stations (or so it was thought!)

On the other hand, the IRT's Manhattan El lines had trains equipped with large, roof-mounted headlights; originally, BRT (BMT) open-gate cars had provisions for roof-mounted headlights, but these headlights were only used on lines that traveled along a surface route during nighttime hours.

The IRT's Hi-V's and Lo-V's carried kerosene markers for decades; when the last of the ancient Hi-V cars were retired in 1958, so went the era of kerosene markers.

The Lo-V's which were to remain in service, however, were retrofitted with electric headlights.

Interestingly, when the IND first began serving Coney Island (via the old BMT Culver line) in the early 1950's, the prewar IND cars were retrofitted with windshield wipers (recall, in years past,IND equipment only operated outdoors for a short stretch crossing the Gowanus Canal (heading for Smith-9th) and the 1939-1940 special service to the World's Fair......

"NYO"

["CITY OF NEW YORK"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Headlights (or lack thereof)........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6873

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?52936

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6586

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show45750

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24491

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3042

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6491

(courtesy:nycsubway.org)

["ERA Headlights"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly enough, it was not the mighty INTERBOROUGH which heralded in the era of electric marker lights on rapid transit cars, but the H&M, the uptown tubes of which opened in 1908.

Like the later BRT/BMT "Standards", the H&M's "Black" cars were equipped with electric markers, which were built into the ends of the roof monitors.

However, oil lamps were used at floor level, much like the IRT: double-white at the head of each train, and double-red for the tail.

These cars were also far advanced of the IRT's pre-1910 equipment, as they also boasted automatic side doors; too, they also were provided with battery-powered emergency backup lighting, quite advanced, indeed, for 1908....

"NYO"

["HUDSON RAPID TUBES"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a rare photo of what appears to be the first train (or at least a test train) to run from New Jersey (Exchange Place) to Hudson Terminal in 1909.

Note the IRT-style oil markers at floor level.

Also, note the boxy deck roof of the original "A" Class cars*; this was the only class of H&M cars to use this type of roof.

All other "Black" cars (Class "B" through "J") had more modern "monitor" roofs; these roofs were quite similar to the IRT's 1938 WF Lo-V's, the R-12/14's, and the IND R-10's.

Note the sense of newness in this rare photo; the advertising posters on the station walls have yet to be installed.

*Note: The "A" Class cars were retired prior to the PATH takeover in 1962.

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?145912

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["H&M"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we see a 1909-vintage "B" Class car at the old (now gone) Henderson St. yards in Jersey City, back in 1957.

I well remember these elderly (and charmingly noisy!) cars as a young lad, 60-odd years ago!

By this time, electric headlights/tail lights were in use.

These hardy old cars were not retired until 1965, when the new "PA" cars began to enter service; they had lasted in service for 56 years (one of these cars survives today, at the Museum of Transport at St. Louis)......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?49814

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["HUDSON TERMINAL"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The distinctive "MP-38"/CLASS "D" PRR/H&M cars (used on the "joint service to Newark) were also equipped with roof-mounted headlights.

These distinctive owl-eyed cars (recalling the PRR/LIRR MP-54's, which debuted in 1910) were retired in 1958, when the new "MP-52"/"K" class replaced them.

H&M trainmen referred to these stalwart old cars (the first of which arrived in 1912) as '"Red McAdoos".......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?138970

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["PENNSYLVANIA"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Between 1959 and 1960, the NYCTA rebuilt nearly 400 BMT "Standards"; these rebuilt cars were the only Standards to be upgraded with headlights.

The oldest cars scrapped between 1956 and 1961 (replaced by the new R-16's and, later, the R-27/30's) were not re-equipped with headlights.

This nostalgic 1960's photo was taken at De Kalb Avenue.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26102

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["DE KALB"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An "El"of a mystery (somewhat)

Obviously, El trains needed some sort of lighting at the head end of trains; nighttime views of BMT El trains are indeed quite rare, to say the least.

The IRT's El cars, we know, all sported roof-mounted headlights; the only BRT El cars to have provisions for roof-mounted headlights were those gate cars which ran on surface tracks during the night (these trains often utilized streetcar trackage)

Recall, also, the roof-mounted headlights on the IRT El cars were indeed quite useful when they were later assigned to the Dyre Avenue line in the early 1940's (ex-NYW&B)

Now, look at this rare color photo, taken at night, of a BMT gate train; note the trainman holding a marker light in his hand (I'd give anything to have one of these in my collection today!)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?96611

I am now wondering if WHITE "markers" were hung from the gates at the head of BMT El trains at night; I've been doing some research through the books I have in my transit library, and have found nothing conclusive......

"NYO"

(photo courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["THERE'S MORE ROOM ON THE El!"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

......another interesting aspect of BRT El trains running on streetcar trackage in downtown Jamaica (prior to the El structure itself being extended out to 168th St.) was that, upon leaving the elevated structure and then continuing its journey on street trackage, the BRT crew were required to mounted a streetcar type "basket fender" to the lead El car, as a safety precaution.......

"NYO"

[BROOKLYN RAPID TRANSIT"]
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this early BRT-era photo, note the trolley poles on the two motor cars (convertibles) flanking the single trailer car; note, also, the HALL "banjo"-type signal to the left of the lead car*.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116197

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*Note the mounting for the headlight, between the two markers; the headlights were mounted on the cars as nightfall approached, and were only used on trains which would run on street trackage during night hours.

["FULTON"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In another early BRT-era photo, we have a group of uniformed BRT trainmen on the front platform of the lead car of this wooden El train (at Canarsie); note the trolley pole on the lead car, and, also, the line poles.

For many decades after third rail had been installed, the old steel BRT line poles were retained along the Canarsie line, carrying signal and electrical cables..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?141879

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["BRT"]
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this truly nostalgic scene from 1954, we see a BMT "Multi" entering the Rockaway Parkway station; on the right, we see "Bluebirds", not long to remain in service.

Note the old BRT line poles, now being used to carry signal and electrical cables..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75651

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["16 CANARSIE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nostalgia indeed abounds in this 1962 photo (very much reminiscent of the SIRT of that era), snapped at the old 105th St. grade crossing (Canarsie line) showing the still-intact BRT line poles.

Front and center is a train of the venerable (and iconic) "AB" Standards........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?152067

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["BMT LINES"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this undated photo, we see a three-car train of elderly BRT/BMT gate cars at the long-obliterated 105th St. grade crossing on the Canarsie line.

Like the old line poles themselves, the gate cars recall the "olden times" when overhead trolley wire was still in use..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?113312

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["CANARSIE"]
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