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On this day in 1948 (a new era begins)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2378
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Interesting too, that FACCo double-deckers carried no exterior ads; in London, from earliest days, the double-deckers were literally festooned with colorful ads; this prompts me to ask this question: when did exterior ads begin to be displayed on the exteriors of New York buses (I know that, by the 1960's, exterior ads were commonplace)

Of course exterior bus advertising would take a HUGE leap when the "Batwing" era began...... Very Happy

In the time the double-deckers (both open-top and "Queen Mary") were at their zenith in FACCo service, exterior advertising was banned by law, considered a distraction (there was actually a Supreme Court decision in 1917 involving FACCo which upheld such a ban). However, such ban was invalidated just in time for the first of the 'Fishbowls' arriving onto the scene in 1959-60 - likewise for the repeal of the prohibition of 102" wide buses on New York streets.

That ban was also why Surface buses were likewise shorn of exterior advertising before 1959-60, keying in to the original intent of this thread.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

One of the VERY few SURFACE photos I've seen to date are in the Guy E. Martin "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES" book.

One photo shows TDH-4507 #1589, sporting one exterior ad, with one frame empty.

The other photo, taken in 1962, shows a SURFACE Fishbowl #3208 (operating on the #31), sporting both dash and side ad cards.

As I'd mentioned earlier, for many decades, London's double-deckers were literally festooned with ads; on the older open-staircase buses, ads were applied to conform to the curve of the stairways, which did look quite colorful.

In the early days of open-toppers in London, small metal ads were affixed to seat backs "upstairs", facing the passengers in back.....

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I have said many times before, the postwar TWINS that once operated in New York were indeed in the ultra-minority, as part of a fleet where GMC and MACK buses dominated.

Like the SURFACE Fishbowls, photos like this is QUITE rare.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154551

(courtey: nycubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare these two different SURFACE paint schemes (both on MACKS) taken on Pelham Parkway, back in the 1950's......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154548

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154549

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"OUT TO PASTURE" (1970)

Too bad this once-commonplace bus type did not last long enough to make it into preservation.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154547

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Compare these two different SURFACE paint schemes (both on MACKS) taken on Pelham Parkway, back in the 1950's......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154548

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154549

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Like those old "woody" lamp posts...so common on the New York and Long Island Parkways.
I believe the only ones left are around Jones Beach State Park...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Yes, those old wooden lampposts can be seen in many old photos, and were quite handsome.

Up until about 20 years ago, on a few side streets near me, there were still ancient "crescent moon" reflectors (shielding incandescent bulbs) affixed to wooden utility poles.

Sadly, these once-commonplace long-since been replaced with modern, intensity fixtures, that, between us, resemble little more than overturned, green bedpans. Sad

Even the 1960's era "cobra head" mercury vapor fixtures (they always made me think of the Martian machines in 1953's "WAR OF THE WORLDS") have disappeared, and thee were once as commonplace as cracks in the sidewalk......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few quick SURFACE inquiries:

1: Postwar, what was the ratio of MACKS to GMC's in the fleet?

2: What year were SURFACE buses last seen sporting the familiar "RIDE THE SURFACE WAY" slogan? (I'm guessing 1962?)

3: Regarding the oldest postwar MACKS, when were the last retired?

Thanks in advance for any info.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

......also, which buses were better at handling routes where steep grades were encountered? (Old Looks or MACKS)

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
A few quick SURFACE inquiries:

1: Postwar, what was the ratio of MACKS to GMC's in the fleet?

2: What year were SURFACE buses last seen sporting the familiar "RIDE THE SURFACE WAY" slogan? (I'm guessing 1962?)

3: Regarding the oldest postwar MACKS, when were the last retired?

Thanks in advance for any info.......

"NYO"

I'd say on #2, 1962-63; that is, those that were unrepainted into FACL green and cream. As for #3, I'd venture 1963. The oldest buses in the Surface fleet were by far the most beat up and in worse shape at that point, with the new made-for-MaBSTOA Fishbowls and some of the best-maintainted FACCo fleet taking their place (this, while 132nd Street got a good portion of the new buses, thus allowing that swap).
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2378
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
"OUT TO PASTURE" (1970)

Too bad this once-commonplace bus type did not last long enough to make it into preservation.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154547

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

The numerals on that exterior were clearly driven from the FACCo / NYCO side, and even made a few 'Tee-Yay' early Fishbowls and some from the ST Fishbowl order when repainted into post-1963 MaBSTOA colors. That type font fell by the wayside once the last of the Old Looks were retired.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
A few quick SURFACE inquiries:

1: Postwar, what was the ratio of MACKS to GMC's in the fleet?

2: What year were SURFACE buses last seen sporting the familiar "RIDE THE SURFACE WAY" slogan? (I'm guessing 1962?)

3: Regarding the oldest postwar MACKS, when were the last retired?

Thanks in advance for any info.......

"NYO"

I'd say on #2, 1962-63; that is, those that were unrepainted into FACL green and cream. As for #3, I'd venture 1963. The oldest buses in the Surface fleet were by far the most beat up and in worse shape at that point, with the new made-for-MaBSTOA Fishbowls and some of the best-maintained FACCo fleet taking their place (this, while 132nd Street got a good portion of the new buses, thus allowing that swap).


W.B.:

As always, greatly appreciate your "in depth" responses. Wink

When Your's Truly was QUITE young, I still clearlyremember Mom and I taking a NHBL #5 bus from our corner in Union City, and then, just outside the bustling "Port-of-Authority", catching a "RIDE THE SURFACE WAY" bus on 42nd St., to visit my godmother who then worked in an office near the UN.

Those buses still are clearly emblazoned in my mind today!

Though I, of course, remember SURFACE Old Looks, for some reason, the MACKS always stand out in my memory.

In my area, NHBL (then operating a VERY diverse fleet) used MACKS (C-45/47/49) until about 1967.

As the buses of this company ran right by our old apartment house in Union City (we lived on the third floor), I had QUITE a bird's eye view of the NHBL's buses, and also, INTER-CITY's Old Looks, WHITES, and ACF-BRILLS on the #97......WHAT a show!

This was also about the time that the WHITES and the oldest square-window Old Looks also vanished from the NHBL fleet.

When MaBSTOA took the reins, I am sure that the futuristic new Fishbowls must have surprised not a few ex-SURFACE riders, who were used to riding the oldest equipment.......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
"OUT TO PASTURE" (1970)

Too bad this once-commonplace bus type did not last long enough to make it into preservation.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154547

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

The numerals on that exterior were clearly driven from the FACCo / NYCO side, and even made a few 'Tee-Yay' early Fishbowls and some from the ST Fishbowl order when repainted into post-1963 MaBSTOA colors. That type font fell by the wayside once the last of the Old Looks were retired.


W.B.:

I am still quite particular to that style of numerals; too bad that, after the last Old Looks vanished, it also disappeared; I certainly would have liked to see it continue on newer buses.

This was just another example of "yesterday's commonplace becoming today's rarity".......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A SURFACE bus (MACK) is seen in front of the old NYCRR (West Shore) ferry terminal in 1956, about to swing onto W. 42nd (this ferry was shut down in 1959)........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156332

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am including this excellent NYW&B history link, as it also lists the bus, streetcar, and rapid transit connections for "Westchester" stations (recall, this heavy-duty electric railway opened in 1912, and was abandoned in late 1937)

You can find the bus/streetcar/rapid transit connections in the "station by station" guide".

A great deal of interesting items, here......

"NYO"

www.nywbry.com


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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