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Baseball buses/rapid transit (then and now)
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 70
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a rare animal at the World's Fair parking lot... the one and only ACF-Brill model ICO-X built in 1949 and somewhat updated with full silversiding.


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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22281
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked

What a shame that this magnificent bus was not preserved!

LOVE the AEROCOACH in the background (a SILVERSIDES can just be glimpsed)

The train of WF "Bluebirds" clattering up above adds the finishing touch to this wonderfully-nostalgic, long-ago scene! Very Happy

Regarding the ACF-BRILL ICO-X:

CONTINENTAL TRAILWAYS was to have had ordered 450 of these unique coaches.

The fleet would have also been equipped with AM-FM radio, buffet service, and a lavatory.

The one bus built was powered by a 267-horepower Hall-Scott gasoline engine.

Thanks again for posting this wonderful old picture!! Wink

"NYO"

*Can't leave out the PSNJ suburban Old Looks, in the background, on the right! Very Happy
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
Here is a rare animal at the World's Fair parking lot... the one and only ACF-Brill model ICO-X built in 1949 and somewhat updated with full silversiding.


I had the opportunity to test-drive that coach, when it was offered for sale in the mid seventies. It was parked on a lot a few miles outside of Wichita, KS. The price was right, but when I asked one of our Continental Trailways mechanics who was familiar with the ACF's to inspect it for me, he talked me out of it, mainly due to the difficulty in obtaining any parts for it, or its Hall-Scott engine.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

An INTERESTING experience, to say the least!

Imagine if you had ACTUALLY purchased this rare old bird? Shocked

Regarding the engine:

DE CAMP operated a number of ACF-BRILL C-44 suburbans into the 1960's; some of these buses they had purchased new, a group from PSNJ (where they did not last long) and those that originally been operated for ATLANTIC TRANSPORTION ("Garden State Lines"); DE CAMP took over this company about 1956.

Some of these BRILLS were diesel, while others were gas.

Back in the 1960's, I also remember ACF-BRILL IC-41's being used in charter service........

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it would have been great to own such an historical and totally unique vehicle. If I had, by now I'd probably have donated it to the Museum of Bus Transportation in Hershey.

Here's another one I almost bought. This one would have been a much better choice, as parts would be much easier to obtain, It was certainly not unique, but its position as the very last GM Coach highway bus, made it certainly of historic significance. Due to moving from a 7.5 acre home with ample storage space, to a gated community, I no longer would have a place to park it, so gave up the idea... Sad

https://www.busesforsale.com/bus/7387-1980GMCH8H649A233
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2378
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Yes, it would have been great to own such an historical and totally unique vehicle. If I had, by now I'd probably have donated it to the Museum of Bus Transportation in Hershey.

Here's another one I almost bought. This one would have been a much better choice, as parts would be much easier to obtain, It was certainly not unique, but its position as the very last GM Coach highway bus, made it certainly of historic significance. Due to moving from a 7.5 acre home with ample storage space, to a gated community, I no longer would have a place to park it, so gave up the idea... Sad

https://www.busesforsale.com/bus/7387-1980GMCH8H649A233

Dang! 3-piece rear windows. I was hoping for a 4-piece . . . Wink
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22281
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Yes, it would have been great to own such an historical and totally unique vehicle. If I had, by now I'd probably have donated it to the Museum of Bus Transportation in Hershey.

Here's another one I almost bought. This one would have been a much better choice, as parts would be much easier to obtain, It was certainly not unique, but its position as the very last GM Coach highway bus, made it certainly of historic significance. Due to moving from a 7.5 acre home with ample storage space, to a gated community, I no longer would have a place to park it, so gave up the idea... Sad

https://www.busesforsale.com/bus/7387-1980GMCH8H649A233


traildriver:

Had I bought that classic highway coach, I would have been hard-pressed as to what livery I'd paint it in....so many great choices!!! (PSNJ [of course!]. GREYHOUND, TRAILWAYS, INTER-CITY, DE CAMP, etc!)

In a perfect world, I'd be the proud owner of an Old Look transit, Old Look suburban, and an ACF- BILL C-44 (do any of the latter even exist anymore?) Question

Earlier I'd mentioned DE CAMP; for several years, they also operated WHITE 798's; these buses originally were operated by "ATLANTIC TRANSPORTATION", which DE CAMP absorbed about 1956.

I think these were retired when the first Fishbowls began arriving.

Scary to think I have not been on a WHITE or an ACF-BRILL in something like 57 years! Shocked

Mom and I DID ride some beautiful CCF-BRILLS up in Montreal, back in 1973, however......

"NYO"

Wink
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not that familiar with ACF-Brill products, but I wonder if they had adapted the C-44 design for intercity coaches rather than the IC-41 design, would they have lasted longer in the business?

I never thought that having the entrance door behind the front axle was a good idea. And while the underfloor pancake engine is good for balanced handling, it is bad for handling baggage and express...not sure, but does the C-44 have rear engine layout?

Edit: I just found the answer...no, they have the same underfloor layout as the IC-41... so they would have had to redesign the entire bus to make it more competitive in the market...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Agreed.

Recall, also, that the C-44's were transit (city and suburban) buses, whereas the IC-41's were clearly designed for intercity highway services.

As with so any other fleets in the country, by the later 1950's and 1960's, non-GM buses (BRILL, WHITE, etc.) because more and more the "odd men out" in increasingly standardized fleets where GM had the majority rule.

The CTA, well into the 1960's still operated a very diverse (and interesting) fleet (TWIN COACH, FLEX, GM, WHITE, MACK, and ACF-BRILL)

It was not until the 1970's when the CTA began looking more and more to GM for new buses........

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
traildriver:

Agreed.

Recall, also, that the C-44's were transit (city and suburban) buses, whereas the IC-41's were clearly designed for intercity highway services.

As with so any other fleets in the country, by the later 1950's and 1960's, non-GM buses (BRILL, WHITE, etc.) because more and more the "odd men out" in increasingly standardized fleets where GM had the majority rule.

The CTA, well into the 1960's still operated a very diverse (and interesting) fleet (TWIN COACH, FLEX, GM, WHITE, MACK, and ACF-BRILL)

It was not until the 1970's when the CTA began looking more and more to GM for new buses........

"NYO"


CTA didn’t have much choice in the early ‘70’s…
GM would have been it, except for a minor presence of Flxible, thanks to the government requiring GM to sell their proprietary power train to Flxible…

Then AM General entered the market with. Canadian (Western Flyer) design, followed by other foreign manufacturers, and GM’s decision to exit the market …
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Agreed:

The early CTA of the late 1940's still had several US bus manufacturers to choose from.

The newest Old Looks, I believe, we ex-CMCCo)

That they purchased new PCC's (some, oddly enough, two-man) in the late 40's, only run them for barely a decade before scrapping them (and using a number of components for new rapid transit cars) is still a head-scratcher for me.

Too, remember that the CTA operated trolley buses as well, until the early/id-1970's.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
Here is a rare animal at the World's Fair parking lot... the one and only ACF-Brill model ICO-X built in 1949 and somewhat updated with full silversiding.

The “silversides” on that coach actually had a gold-toned finish.
BTW, IIRC, didn’t that same company Penn-Jersey, also own at one time the GM experimental PD-4901 “Golden Chariot”?
They must have had a “thing” for one-offs…
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
Here is a rare animal at the World's Fair parking lot... the one and only ACF-Brill model ICO-X built in 1949 and somewhat updated with full silversiding.

The “silversides” on that coach actually had a gold-toned finish.
BTW, IIRC, didn’t that same company Penn-Jersey, also own at one time the GM experimental PD-4901 “Golden Chariot”?
They must have had a “thing” for one-offs…


traildriver:

Through the 1940's and 1950's, recall how "diverse" the TRAILWAYS fleet was.

They were operating buses built by, among others YELLOW, FLXIBLE, BECK, AEROCOACH.

Once the 4104's began arriving, along with the first EAGLES, this was setting the stage for "fleet standardization".

By the 1960's, CONTINENTAL was operating (AFAIK) only EAGLES and GM's (4104's/4106's)............

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
traildriver wrote:
MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
Here is a rare animal at the World's Fair parking lot... the one and only ACF-Brill model ICO-X built in 1949 and somewhat updated with full silversiding.

The “silversides” on that coach actually had a gold-toned finish.
BTW, IIRC, didn’t that same company Penn-Jersey, also own at one time the GM experimental PD-4901 “Golden Chariot”?
They must have had a “thing” for one-offs…


traildriver:

Through the 1940's and 1950's, recall how "diverse" the TRAILWAYS fleet was.

They were operating buses built by, among others YELLOW, FLXIBLE, BECK, AEROCOACH.

Once the 4104's began arriving, along with the first EAGLES, this was setting the stage for "fleet standardization".

By the 1960's, CONTINENTAL was operating (AFAIK) only EAGLES and GM's (4104's/4106's)............

"NYO"


The Flxible's lasted to the late '60's. The handful of Southern's might have, too.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Those Flexies lasted longer than I thought; thanks for the info.

With GREYHOUND and TRAILWAYS being competitors for so many years, who ever thought that, one day, the iconic EAGLES, o much a TRAILWAYS symbol, would be carrying the familiar "running dog" on their flanks? Rolling Eyes

And, today, even the once-complex, far-reaching 'Hound network is but a mere fragment of what it once was......... Sad

"NYO"
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