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MaBSTOA Nostalgia ("Take 2")
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also from the Martin book:

"......the 480 TDH-5303's allowed the retirement of the MACK C-49's; the city invested over $55 million dollars to upgrade the fleet, with 1,560 new TDH-5303's in less than five years....."

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

......from the photos I've seen (nycsubway.org) it would seem that the last MaBSTOA Old Looks were retired no later than 1970/1971.

What new buses replaced the last of these old workhorses?

On the other hand, if I am not mistaken, I believe that at least some of the last "Tee-Yay" Old Looks remained in service until about 1972........

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
......from the photos I've seen (nycsubway.org) it would seem that the last MaBSTOA Old Looks were retired no later than 1970/1971.

What new buses replaced the last of these old workhorses?

On the other hand, if I am not mistaken, I believe that at least some of the last "Tee-Yay" Old Looks remained in service until about 1972........

"NYO"

I know certain of the MaBSTOA Old Looks, after 1970-71, were shunted to Brooklyn to play out the rest of their service lives on 'Tee-Yay' routes there, hence residents of that borough got to travel on at least some of those buses with the "box" front roll signs. But this was generally after the 1969-70 Flxible New Looks (MaBSTOA 4600-4727) arrived in the Bronx. Thus, from 1970 to the arrival of the T6H-5309A's and T6H-5310A's in 1973, all buses in MaBSTOA's Manhattan depots were 5303's. (The Bronx, of course, had in their Kingsbridge depot the bulk of the FACL and ST Fishbowls from 1960.) The last of the 5309A's that went to the Bronx in summer 1973, enabled the earliest Fishbowls dating back to FACL and ST days to be retired.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As usual, greatly appreciate your input.

As a kid, I well recall the "old buses with the signs that stick out in the front"; I thought they were quite exotic......we had nothing like them in New Jersey.

Regarding "first generation" Fishbowls, the latest I can remember seeing ex-PSNJ "first generation" Fishbowls would have been in the late 1970's/ very early 80's.

Too bad not one of the FACCo. or ST Fishbowls ever made it into preservation......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.........had ST and FACCo remained "indy" companies, it would have also been interesting to see large orders of Fishbowls coming "on line"; one cannot help but wonder what "the order of the day" might have been like post-1962, had the infamous FACCo. strike not happened.

To say that Fishbowls were in the "ultra minority" in both the SURFACE and FACCO. fleets indeed is an understatement.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....another interesting fact (regarding FACCo. Fishbowls) was that, despite their 40-foot lengths, they had a seating capacity of 45.

When the FACCo. Fishbowls were new, they would have been easy buses "to miss", being that the fleet, at the time, was otherwise all Old Looks and MACK.

Had FACCo. remained "indy", I would have loved to have seen Flex New Looks lettered for FACCo...... Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Guy E. Martin book:

"..............the largest order of 5303's were delivered to MaBSTOA
in 1965..........."

"......these buses were also the first delivered to MaBSTOA to be equipped with all-longitudinal seating....."

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
From the Guy E. Martin book:

"..............the largest order of 5303's were delivered to MaBSTOA
in 1965..........."

"......these buses were also the first delivered to MaBSTOA to be equipped with all-longitudinal seating....."

"NYO"

Must've been the 6401-6900 order, with the last 200 (from 6701 on) 'batwinged'. That was certainly huge. Dwarfed the prior year's order of 325 buses (5201-5525, the last 10 'batwinged'). It (and the 5601-5790 order to Flxible for the TA) was the first set of buses whereby the rear windows came from the factory as 4-piece (prior orders were 3-piece rear windows). But then, they had a whole bunch of buses from FACCo, NYCO and ST(S) to put out to pasture.

That none of the two 'Tee-Yay' Flxie orders of 1964-65 had even the smallest percentages assigned to the one Manhattan depot they had (way up on 126th and Second), may have some bearing on why none of the 5001-5165 or 5601-5790 buses had 'batwings'. Pictures exist of a CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) Flxible with them to show it could have been done. The very same ones made by Transign that were a fixture of GM Fishbowls.

And initially, the batwinged 6701-6900 were all assigned to Manhattan, while the non-batwinged 6401-6700 were exclusively all Bronx at the onset. Within a few years (about 1967), a few of each subgroup were swapped for one another so that the Bronx got some batwings and Manhattanites could enjoy a standee's window view.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As always, greatly appreciate your most interesting, in-depth historical input.

Am curious as to when the last ex-SURFACE C-45-DT's were retired; I also wonder if "AVENUE B" ever bought any as parts donors, or, simply purchased parts, to keep their own MACKS in operation.........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

......also, when were the ex-SURFACE 5104's and 5106's retired?

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
......also, when were the ex-SURFACE 5104's and 5106's retired?

"NYO"

5104's must've been retired around the 1967-70 period . . . definitely some of the "boxed" front roll sign 5106's were among those transferred to the 'Tee-Yay' for use in Brooklyn after '70.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Appreciate the info, as always......

I see I was pretty much "on target", here; I was thinking that these buses were retired during that time frame.

Ironically, here in "Joisey", the very last Old Looks (and they were only a few in service by this late date) vanished in 1986; the very last I remember were two or three NHBL coaches, dating about to the mid-1950's.

Just thinking, of how "AVENUE B" was still using MACKS well into the 1970's, long after they had vanished elsewhere (the last in my area disappeared around 1968).......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding ex-MaBSTOA routes, I think it is pretty much a given today that most drivers (and most certainly, their passengers; except, perhaps, some of the older ones) have no inkling whatsoever of MaBSTOA even existing.

Personally, I have long felt that MaBSTOA, its buses, operations, and routes, have only received (pardon the pun!) "token" coverage over the years, especially in the realm of bus publications.

When one considers MaBSTOA's rich history, and then also recalls FACCo., NYO, and SURFACE, you are talking about quite a rich and diverse history, in regards to historic "Noo Yawk" bus operations.

Anyhow, that's Your's Truly's two-and-a-half-cent's worth......Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.........have been wondering about transmissions throughout the years (I'm sure that, elsewhere, this subject has already been discussed)

Did any the oldest Old Looks have manual transmissions, or were they all automatic (I'm guessing they were automatics, but am not sure)

I know that GM once offered the "SUPER V" transmission, that was used for heavy local service and freeway express services.

Was this type of transmission used in New York?

I am also now thinking of the Fishbowls used in express service to/from Staten Island, via the VZ Bridge.......

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1783
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
.........have been wondering about transmissions throughout the years (I'm sure that, elsewhere, this subject has already been discussed)

Did any the oldest Old Looks have manual transmissions, or were they all automatic (I'm guessing they were automatics, but am not sure)

I know that GM once offered the "SUPER V" transmission, that was used for heavy local service and freeway express services.

Was this type of transmission used in New York?

I am also now thinking of the Fishbowls used in express service to/from Staten Island, via the VZ Bridge.......

"NYO"


I don't know about Transit Old Looks, but the Suburban's certainly had manual transmission's as standard equipment, as did their New Look successor's...
I'm guessing that at least some of the earlier Old Look Transits did have manual transmission's. Whether that lasted until the New Look's replaced them or not, I'm not sure.
One clue may be that GM designated the type of tranny in the model number...either TDM - or TDH- otherwise they could have simply called them TD- (or TG-, if there were any early gasoline powered version's)...
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