BusTalk

[X-Astorian]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

X-Astorian:

I had forgotten about the reason why NJT changed many route numbers; thanks for refreshing my memory!

Even so, die-hard that I was (and still am!) I never referred to the "#181" as anything but the "#21"; likewise, NJT's Nungessers-JSQ route, which had been the NHBL #1 long before I debuted in 1957) is still, to me, the "#1".

This line (and the NHBL's "#5" to the PABT) ran right by our old Union City apartment building in Union City when I was a kid, back in the 1960's, so I was quite familiar with both lines.

Both of these former NHBL lines use "The Boulevard"; since the mid-60's, it has been "JFK Boulevard", prior to that, "Hudson Boulevard".

As to MaBSTOA, it's still interesting to ponder what things might have been like today, had FACCo. and SURFACE both remained on the scene, beyond the early 1960's.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Speaking of bygone days.......:

"......by early 1951, NYO operated 956 buses against a requirement of 836 buses over 19 routes out of four garages....."

"......at this time, NYO was the largest operator of buses in Manhattan. In general, the oldest equipment (YELLOW 718's, and rebuilt 740's) were assigned to the downtown cross-town routes, while new TDH-4509's held down the avenue runs....."

"......The 4509's were the exclusive domains of the more posh 79th St. and 86th St. Crosstown routes, while the remaining routes shared different equipment....."

GARAGES:

12th St.-113 buses

54th St.-56 buses

100th St.-295 buses

(Source: "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES", Guy E. Martin)

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

South Ferry, 1984.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154002

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Park Row & Beekman, 1984......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156308

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Some views from 1976.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155530

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155516

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154758

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155137

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153971

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155542

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Just few quick questions:

1:

What buses did the GRUMMANS initially replace; also, what buses did the earliest RTS replace?

2:

When did the last MaBSTOA Old Looks run (I'm guessing about 1970), and what routes were they then being used on?

3:

Were the last Old Looks used throughout the day, or were they only used as "trippers" during rush hours?

4:

Were the GM's more adept at climbing steep hills, than were the Flex New Looks?

Thanks in advance for any input.......

"NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

As far as #1, I can only ascertain the Grummans were supposed to replace those that the TV news characterized as "old clunkers" when they were returned to service after the first waylaying of the Grummans.

Which reminds me: Here is a sad sight from 1974, taken at the 239th Street yard of the IRT. A bunch of buses including FACL New Looks 3107, 3108 and 3158 and Old Look 3263 (ex STS/ST 1063), picked clean, before going to the scrap yard.

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

As always, appreciate your input; always quite informative.

That photo of the buses awaiting scrapping indeed brings a tear to the eyes of any true "die hard" old-timer in the hobby.

Amazing that some Fishbowls were already being scrapped; this, at a time, when the fleet was all GM Fishbowls and Flex New Looks (IMHO, these were scrapped too early; consider 20-year old buses still in service in the mid-60's)

Another bus I feel was retired far too early were the TDH-5106's (aka "the buses with the signs that stick out in the front"), dating to 1959.

When these buses were retired, they were just a little over a decade old, which (IMHO) is still pretty young for a transit bus.

It was clear that the "Tee-Yay" wanted an all-Fishbowl/New Look fleet; quite a few other cities kept Old Looks running for quite some time after the last were retired in "Noo Yawk"........

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Another depressing scene (Harway & 25th Avenue); I could be wrong, but I think that the photo dates are incorrect; the buses seem to be in pretty decent shape for vehicles which (according to the photo dates, which, IMHO, should read "1971", instead of "1981") would have been OOS for at least a decade or more (note the lone MACK)........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154633

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153311

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[W.B. Fishbowl]

The pics are 1981 all right; all restored museum buses, although not toyed around with to the extent they would be in later years. (Especially 4789, which by 1984 was retabbed as a faux "2969.") The 98.7 Kiss ad was one giveaway as to the second photo especially dated 1981, as in 1971 98.7 was still known as WOR-FM (it became WXLO in October 1972, and WRKS in August 1981). The other: the two-tone blue on that '63 GM bus. 1971 was still all green for the TA and OA fleets.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Thanks for the information; on closer inspection, I DID see the 98.7 KISS ad, which, of course, would not have been seen in 1971.

Two other quick questions:

What buses replaced the soon-to-be-scrapped Fishbowls seen in the IRT yard? (1974); was this a case of old Fishbowls being replaced by new Fishbowls, or were there service cut at the time that rendered these "First Generation" Fishbowls surplus?

Also, in the one photo, there is an elevated "booth"; was this some sort of dispatchers office at one time?

As always, greatly appreciate your ever-education input........

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

It's hard to believe that these now-classic "Fishbowl" scenes were snapped over a half-century ago........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154301

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154084

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154201

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154028

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154046

[W.B. Fishbowl]