BusTalk

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Perhaps the "Tee-Yay" saw that they could get more $$$$$ by selling their retired "Shermans" and "Pattons" for scrap instead of to "The Little Red Bus That Could".

This is something has had Your's Truly scratching his gray head for years now.

That "AVENUE B" was supposed to be getting NEW buses ("Borough Bombers") also makes one wonder how long "The Little Red Bus That Could" could have lasted as an independent, perhaps into the 2000s, as was the case with the now-defunct Queens "indys".............

"NYO"

["M9-CITY HALL"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here in "Joisey", the long-defunct "WASHINGTON STREET BUS Co" was much like a miniscule "AVENUE B" (Your's Truly knew this old outfit well, in his much, much younger days!)

This little Hoboken "local" line, which only ran for 14 blocks along Washington Street (terminating at the PATH tubes/E-L terminal), never rostered anything new; for decades, the line ran second and third-hand antiques that were quite diverse to say the least!

Into the mid-1960s, some of the buses were prewar models (what an assortment of vintage buses for the enthusiasts of that era!)

Obviously, neither PSNJ or NJT were ever interested in buying out the line; "Shermans" (second-hand) were still running in 1986!

Some, like "30X"", were ex-PSNJ, still in the PS two-tone green of the early 1960s!

I also recall that they purchased several Fishbowls from a Westchester company, back in the early/mid-1980s.

Though this company lasted longer than "The Little Red Bus That Could", it eventually disappeared, largely due to a serious accident involving one of its buses.

"Indies", nowadays, are virtually extinct in the conglomerate world of urban bus operations in the big metro areas; look at the Queens independents, lasting into the 2000s, and, by that time, "The Little Red Bus That Could" was already long gone..........

"NYO"

["M9 AVE.B."]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Interesting..........

Though "The Little Red Bus That Could" entered the Fishbowl era in 1967, with the purchase of five TDH-4519s, the company did not see its first "Jetsons" until several TDH-5302s (ex-Rochester) were purchased.........

"NYO"

["513"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Thought.............

Recall the 13 new GRUMMANS (aka "Borough Bombers") that were supposed to go to the "Little Red Bus That Could" ("AVENUE B") which, upon the company disappearing, went to "stoa" instead.

Now, recall the the "Em-Tee-Yay's" fleet of "Bombers" literally falling apart on the streets; old "Tee-Yay" buses in storage were brought out of retirement, and a caravan of tried-and-true Fishbowls and "Dangerfields" heading north from DC, to fill in for the ill-fated GRUMMANS.

Had "AVENUE B" then still been an "indy" company, and they, too, were forced to pull their new "Bombers" from service, what "back up" might they have had to turn to?

Would they also have received "loaners" from DC?

It's not like the "Em-Tee-Yay" then had a tremendous cache of stored buses on hand............

"NYO"

["SPECIAL"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's another "AVENUE B" snippet in the "what if" category......

The "Little Red Bus That Could" purchased "Dangerfields" in 1965, one of five delivered that year.

What if the company had purchased enough "Dangerfields" to retire the aging, but still-stalwart, "Pattons"?

Interestingly, these were the last new buses purchased by owner Jacob Greenberg before he passed away in 1966.

Then again, recall that (as mentioned earlier) the 10 TDH-5105 "Shermans", leased from Hausman Bus Sales; these buses had formerly operated in Chicago (SOUTH SUBURBAN SAFEWAY) and in Queens (QUEENS TRANSIT)

Again, the question:

Why didn't "AVENUE B" ever purchase surplus "Shermans" or "Pattons" from the "Tee-Yay" when they were being retired?

Perhaps as scrap, these buses added more $$$$ to the "Tee-Yay's" coffers than had they been sold to "AVENUE B"................

"NYO"

["425"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

One thing I noticed about all the pictures of "The Little Red Bus That Could": Is it my imagination, or was their red and cream paint scheme along the lines of Surface ("Ride The Surface Way") prior to FACL's late '56 takeover of it?

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Compare these "SURFACE" and "AVENUE B" photos..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154552

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153092

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

............still thinking about what the scenario might have been like, had "The Little Red Bus That Could" still been independent (now operating "Borough Bombers"), and their fleet (like those of the "Em-Tee-Yay") were also pulled from service.

Would they have been allocated any of the loaned DC buses?

In total, 11 buses were in service on the last day of "indy" operations.

Gotta think of what might have transpired.........

"NYO"

["602"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Funny when you think of big operators like FACL/SURFACE being gone for nearly two decades when "The Little Red Bus That Could" finally disappeared down the echoing corridors of time.

That "AVENUE B" was family owned and operated for so many years indeed gave the company a distinct "home town" feeling, rare in "Noo Yawk"..............

"NYO"

["513"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an interesting "coming and going" scene at Chatham Square, way back in 1974............

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153067

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["M9"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Thanks for the info.

Note all the open windows on that "Bullet" Fishbowl; OBVIOUSLY a WARM day!

Quick question:

How did the MTA "restructure" the former "Little Red Bus That Could" routes?

Where there re-routings, etc.?

Thanks....

"NYO"

BTW:

How did the "Em-Tee-Yay" feel about "AVENUE B" running in their "big time" territory?

"NYO"

["501"]