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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2423 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:03 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | Avenue B did not buy those "Shermans" from Chicago. They were leased from Hausman Bus Sales and they were ex-South Suburban Bus Lines from the Chicago area. |
Thanks for the correction: I (for whatever reason) get this one wrong.
I DID know that these buses had once operated in the Chicago area; again, I am wondering why "AVENUE B" did not purchase any Old Looks or MACKS from the "Tee-Yay" when they were being disposed of...........
"NYO"
["AVENUE B & EAST BROADWAY"] |
I have to wonder if the "Tee-Yay" or " 'stoa" basically told Avenue B to go take a hike in terms of purchasing any old buses from either. There's a lot about Avenue B's history that practically scream "unanswered questions" and "what if's."
As for old "Em-Tee-Yay" buses (mostly "Torpedoes," but also a few rebuilt "Bombers" after Grumman got out of that picture) that wound up doing service in "Joisey," I have to wonder if those were the buses that the "Pea-Yay" (a.k.a. "Port-of-Authority") purchased and had leased to " 'stoa" and the "Tee-Yay." |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:51 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Perhaps the "Tee-Yay" saw that they could get more $$$$$ by selling their retired "Shermans" and "Pattons" for scrap instead of to "The Little Red Bus That Could".
This is something has had Your's Truly scratching his gray head for years now.
That "AVENUE B" was supposed to be getting NEW buses ("Borough Bombers") also makes one wonder how long "The Little Red Bus That Could" could have lasted as an independent, perhaps into the 2000s, as was the case with the now-defunct Queens "indys".............
"NYO"
["M9-CITY HALL"]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Here in "Joisey", the long-defunct "WASHINGTON STREET BUS Co" was much like a miniscule "AVENUE B" (Your's Truly knew this old outfit well, in his much, much younger days!)
This little Hoboken "local" line, which only ran for 14 blocks along Washington Street (terminating at the PATH tubes/E-L terminal), never rostered anything new; for decades, the line ran second and third-hand antiques that were quite diverse to say the least!
Into the mid-1960s, some of the buses were prewar models (what an assortment of vintage buses for the enthusiasts of that era!)
Obviously, neither PSNJ or NJT were ever interested in buying out the line; "Shermans" (second-hand) were still running in 1986!
Some, like "30X"", were ex-PSNJ, still in the PS two-tone green of the early 1960s!
I also recall that they purchased several Fishbowls from a Westchester company, back in the early/mid-1980s.
Though this company lasted longer than "The Little Red Bus That Could", it eventually disappeared, largely due to a serious accident involving one of its buses.
"Indies", nowadays, are virtually extinct in the conglomerate world of urban bus operations in the big metro areas; look at the Queens independents, lasting into the 2000s, and, by that time, "The Little Red Bus That Could" was already long gone..........
"NYO"
["M9 AVE.B."]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:46 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting..........
Though "The Little Red Bus That Could" entered the Fishbowl era in 1967, with the purchase of five TDH-4519s, the company did not see its first "Jetsons" until several TDH-5302s (ex-Rochester) were purchased.........
"NYO"
["513"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Thought.............
Recall the 13 new GRUMMANS (aka "Borough Bombers") that were supposed to go to the "Little Red Bus That Could" ("AVENUE B") which, upon the company disappearing, went to "stoa" instead.
Now, recall the the "Em-Tee-Yay's" fleet of "Bombers" literally falling apart on the streets; old "Tee-Yay" buses in storage were brought out of retirement, and a caravan of tried-and-true Fishbowls and "Dangerfields" heading north from DC, to fill in for the ill-fated GRUMMANS.
Had "AVENUE B" then still been an "indy" company, and they, too, were forced to pull their new "Bombers" from service, what "back up" might they have had to turn to?
Would they also have received "loaners" from DC?
It's not like the "Em-Tee-Yay" then had a tremendous cache of stored buses on hand............
"NYO"
["SPECIAL"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Here's another "AVENUE B" snippet in the "what if" category......
The "Little Red Bus That Could" purchased "Dangerfields" in 1965, one of five delivered that year.
What if the company had purchased enough "Dangerfields" to retire the aging, but still-stalwart, "Pattons"?
Interestingly, these were the last new buses purchased by owner Jacob Greenberg before he passed away in 1966.
Then again, recall that (as mentioned earlier) the 10 TDH-5105 "Shermans", leased from Hausman Bus Sales; these buses had formerly operated in Chicago (SOUTH SUBURBAN SAFEWAY) and in Queens (QUEENS TRANSIT)
Again, the question:
Why didn't "AVENUE B" ever purchase surplus "Shermans" or "Pattons" from the "Tee-Yay" when they were being retired?
Perhaps as scrap, these buses added more $$$$ to the "Tee-Yay's" coffers than had they been sold to "AVENUE B"................
"NYO"
["425"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2423 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I noticed about all the pictures of "The Little Red Bus That Could": Is it my imagination, or was their red and cream paint scheme along the lines of Surface ("Ride The Surface Way") prior to FACL's late '56 takeover of it? |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | One thing I noticed about all the pictures of "The Little Red Bus That Could": Is it my imagination, or was their red and cream paint scheme along the lines of Surface ("Ride The Surface Way") prior to FACL's late '56 takeover of it? |
W.B.:
You are not alone; I, also, have long thought the same thing: that paint scheme was indeed along the lines of "SURFACE".
It would have been most interesting, to say the very least, how these colors might have been applied to the "Borough Bombers" (GRUMMAN) that would have run for the "Little Red Bus That Could", had the company not disappeared into history for all time.......
"NYO"
["501"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:52 am Post subject: |
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............still thinking about what the scenario might have been like, had "The Little Red Bus That Could" still been independent (now operating "Borough Bombers"), and their fleet (like those of the "Em-Tee-Yay") were also pulled from service.
Would they have been allocated any of the loaned DC buses?
In total, 11 buses were in service on the last day of "indy" operations.
Gotta think of what might have transpired.........
"NYO"
["602"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2423 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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And what a way to start the comparison, with early Macks. But yeah. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Funny when you think of big operators like FACL/SURFACE being gone for nearly two decades when "The Little Red Bus That Could" finally disappeared down the echoing corridors of time.
That "AVENUE B" was family owned and operated for so many years indeed gave the company a distinct "home town" feeling, rare in "Noo Yawk"..............
"NYO"
["513"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Here's an interesting "coming and going" scene at Chatham Square, way back in 1974............
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153067
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["M9"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2423 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:58 am Post subject: |
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No doubt that green "Tee-Yay" bus was on either one of two routes: what, in 13 days after this picture was taken, become M22 (then M-1 Madison-Chambers), or M15 First & Second Avenues. In any case, Avenue B and the "Tee-Yay" had some of the oldest bus rolling stock running around in Manhattan (" 'stoa's" earliest by then being the 1963 set within 3301-3555 - the first of their "Bullets"). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:50 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Thanks for the info.
Note all the open windows on that "Bullet" Fishbowl; OBVIOUSLY a WARM day!
Quick question:
How did the MTA "restructure" the former "Little Red Bus That Could" routes?
Where there re-routings, etc.?
Thanks....
"NYO"
BTW:
How did the "Em-Tee-Yay" feel about "AVENUE B" running in their "big time" territory?
"NYO"
["501"] |
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