BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Remembering*........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Times_Square

*The building's appearance today is light-years beyond garish, even for the Times Square area; too many signs affixed to the tower, practically overlapping one another.

The classical TIMES tower and the sleek ALLIED CHEMICAL tower of later years, at least, had a sense of style to them, and did not overwhelm passers-by........

[W.B. Fishbowl]

Exactly.

It should be noted (if I hadn't already) that the Allied Chemical Tower zipper had a sister for a time, located atop the Walgreen Building on the NE corner of North State and East Randolph Streets in Chicago, from about 1966 to 1972. A photo taken on East Randolph facing NW towards North State with a portion of that zipper in action (flashing 'WAR --') is on the Smithsonian Institution's site regarding the Douglas Leigh papers. Only they got the date wrong ("1940-1945" - probably confusing it with another zipper, on the NW corner of Seventh Avenue and 42nd Street as lurking on some photos adjacent to the Times Tower taken during D-Day 1944). A 1970 New Yorker magazine article noted that the tape perforators that went through the Naxon Telesign controls that transmitted the news bulletins through both zippers, did so simultaneously, that is someone in Chicago would have seen the same stories pass through at or around the same time as those passing through the Allied Chemical zipper on Times Square.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

This is bringing back memories of when Your's Truly began working on the floor of the NYSE (April, 1979); back then, the "tape" was actually projected onto long screens above the trading floors of the "Main Room" and "The Garage" via huge and ancient "Trans-Lux" projectors.

When the trading floors were upgraded in the early 1980's, the old tape system was replaced by an up-to-date electronic display system ("zippers?)

"Zippers" had already been in use at the NYSE, in the more modern "Blue Room", which opened in the late 1960's).

Too, I still clearly recall, back in the 60's and 70's, the miniature "zipper" signs that used to be found in many of the drugstore windows (I've always thought of just how cool they would look in a scale TIMES/ALLIED CHEMICAL model!)

On buses, I never cared for most electronic signage (I always preferred roll signs!), but there were some "electronic" signs that I did like; today, even those original signs have become outdated technology themselves.......

"NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

Funny you mention Trans-Lux; in the 1940's and '50's they supplied the controls for many a Times Square zipper, before other companies made their inroads along the "Great White Way." Among those gracing their type:
- "Miss Youth Form" / Budweiser etc., atop Brill Building (last used 1967)
- Above 729 Seventh Avenue (Atlantic City 1950's, American Red Ball Movers 1960's)
- 47th Street (two zippers: Ruppert Beer / Adimral Television Appliances 1946-65; then Coca-Cola 1965-77, though another company's type traveled through that zipper through 1989)
- Two on RKO Palace (news zipper 1940-41; promo zipper 1945-48, dismantled about 1953)
- atop Bond Clothing Stores, Broadway between 44th and 45th Streets (put up 1948; Trans-Lux' type only used till 1954)
- Atop NE 43rd and Broadway (1956-69; first promoted Kleenex, then 1967 "Camelot" movie and then either "Stiletto" or "Harold Robbins' The Survivors")
- SE 43rd and Broadway (1956-80; two zippers in one, first promoted TWA to 1962, then WNBC-TV 4 / 660 AM 1963-66, Delta 1972-76; last used for a Sergio Valente ad in 1980)

Their brand of font looked something like this:

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

If memory serves me correctly, the "zipper" for BOND read "TWO TROUSER SUITS" (at least in part)

There was also a PEPSI (animated) waterfall sign (late 1950's/early 1960's)

While on the topic of Times Square signage of years back, recall the huge "CASTRO CONVERTIBLE" sign, and "ADMIRAL APPLIANCES".

When I was quite young, my folks and my two older brothers (who then still lived at home) and I would board a NHBL #5 bus on our corner (13th & Hudson Boulevard), for a quick (10-15 minute) hop into the PABT.

We'd walk along 42nd St. (this was STILL a time before Times Square became a sleaze pit) and go to Times Square, just to enjoy all those big electrical extravaganzas lighting up the night (I well recall SURFACE buses!)

We'd go to the AUTOMAT or some little hot dog joint to have a quick bite, and always stopped in at one or two of the many arcades, where, in addition to all sorts of arcade games, toys, cameras, novelties (G-rated!) and other items were sold

The noise, the traffic, the crowds, the lights.....still excites me in me memory today, nearly sixty years later.......today, I feel as though this all took place 200 years ago, on another planet.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Also of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Square

The 1965 photos* REALLY take me back to the Times Square I grew up with....you can almost FEEL the throb of excitement!

I look at today's photos and, in all honesty, cannot find anything I remember........

"NYO"

Be sure to check out the signs for "BRANIFF" and "CANADIAN CLUB"......

[W.B. Fishbowl]

Another icon of the Square was the 76 x 54 matrix (ergo, 4,104 bulbs) electronic animated 'EPOK' sign that housed many advertising products. That one - on the NE corner of 46th and Broadway - was the second, first installed in late 1940 (there was an earlier version, 50 x 40, in the middle of the block, in place from 1937 to 1940). About 15 products passed through it over a nearly 37-year span (excepting World War II when it was deactivated for blackout rules, and painted billboard promos for films occupied that slot) and was last in operation in early 1977. The longest-lasting advertiser on the EPOK was Bulova, from 1964 (clock added 1965, thus deactivating the bottom four rows so that only 76 x 50, or 3,800 bulbs, were seen) until 1975-76; the last to advertise was Carlton cigarettes. A few pics of this ancient ancestor to today's LED displays can be seen at:

https://media.springernature.com/original/springer-static/image/chp%3A10.1007%2F978-3-030-27931-8_2/MediaObjects/482839_1_En_2_Fig4_HTML.png
(at right)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/33/2e/7c/332e7c2eca7ca5d6344eea959b20c1c9.jpg
(at right)

https://blog.nfb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/NY-Lightboard51.jpg

https://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/New-York-City-1969-Times-Square-1280x853.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LR-X1-paFtg/W-Owg8Itl2I/AAAAAAACRZY/QgVwTCsmDBceHZP2kxTKGRIbd1DxmrXCQCLcBGAs/s1600/Wienerwald_randommusings.filminspector.com_1.jpg

The EPOK would have been in operation through all of the changes in NYC surface transit; that particular one was put in when NYC Omnibus' routes had the Yellow 718, 721, 728, 731 and 740 models, and TARS streetcars plied both Broadway and 42nd Street; it lasted through the addition of all the 'Old Look' variants (from TD-4502 through TDH-5106), the bustitution of TARS routes under Surface Transportation aegis, the reorganization of NYCO as Fifth Avenue Coach Lines and its acquisition of Surface, the 1962 strike that led to the MaBSTOA takeover of both firms' routes, the addition of the New Look "Fishbowls" (FACL's, Surface Transit's and MaBSTOA's) to the mix, and (in the last months of the EPOK's operation) the Flxible 53102-6-1's (bar the last order of same from spring 1977).

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

OUTSTANDING STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and an EXCELLENT "commentary", as a bonus.....thanks for posting!!)

Though not "zipper" related, while on the subject of bygone advertising in New York, I remember when the old Penn Station was still standing (Its senseless demolition was, indeed, a MONUMENTAL act of vandalism) and, also, Grand Central, would have these slowly-revolving turntables showing off the latest models of autos (for whatever reason, I STILL remember seeing a really sharp '65 MARLIN on display.....WHAT a car!!)

Mom and I always enjoyed the KODAK exhibit at Grand Central; I can also remember a train layout (HO, I believe, at Christmastime, back in the 60's)

And.....speaking of "animated" advertising, I can't forget the neon "running dog" at the old GREYHOUND station, opposite the old Pennsylvania Station.....I would could watch that sprinting "dog" for hours....(!!)

Man, I'm really showing my age, now.........

[MaBSTOA 15]

I loved these bus stop maps that were used by MaBSTOA (I'm sure NYCTA also used them - but I was familiar with them in Manhattan and along the route 15 in Queens)

This one is from Fifth Avenue and 57th Street showing all the routes that traveled that fame avenue.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

I'd do just about ANYTHING to get one of those old signs in my collection!!!!

Man, what a treasure that would make, to add to my ever-growing "Transit Den".........

"NYO"

[MaBSTOA 15]

You also mentioned the trolleys that were operated by the Board of Transportation. Here we see the training room for motormen. Note the front end mock-ups of a PCC and a standard trolley

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

....though I've seen this photo before*, I certainly DO NOT mind seeing it again; man, I wish I owned those front-end streetcar mockups (or, at least one of them.....sure would be a hoot playing "motorman"!

What a shame neither survived long enough to become a part of the Transit Museum's collection.

*(This photo is also seen inside the back cover of "100 PCC TROLLEY CARS RAN IN BROOKLYN") [Greller]

According to the text, the signs on the pcc read: ""REHABILITATION" and "BELLEVUE HOSPITAL".

The text suggests that these readings were used, perhaps, to rehabilitate patients in the use of public transit again......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Earlier in this thread, I had inquired as to what local bus lines ran near the Audubon Ballroom in Upper Manhattan in 1965, where Malcolm X was gunned down early that year.

Our good friend W.B. Fishbowl was kind enough to respond with some interesting input.

Malcolm had been living in Elmhurst, Queens.

What "Tee-Yay" (or private) bus lines would have been in operation in that area then?

Appreciate input.....

"NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]