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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2547 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:26 am Post subject: |
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I actually measured the side doors of the "new and improved" [sic] R-40/40M/42's. The windows' height was exactly the same as on the R-32/32A/38's both pre- and post-GOH - and as positioned, almost resembled "Eye-Are-Tee" side doors. Why in Heaven's name couldn't they have at least rebuilt the doors with the same window height as they had originally? |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2547 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:33 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | What's in a name?
By the time that the R-42s were entering service, the "Old Order" had already changed.
The old NYCTA was now the MTA; the new "M" logos were now emblazoning the sides of new orders of subway cars, as wll as replacing the classic, stylized "TA" medallions on the "batwing" buses (as well as the "OA" emblems on the "stoa" buses)
The smart-looking, stylized script over the windows of both "Tee-Yay" and "stoa" Fishbowls and "Dangerfields" were also poised to disappear.
The "Slant 40s" were the last new subway cars to display the old 1960s "TA" insignias (oddly, the R-38 "Brightliner Wannabees" lacked these)
Recall, also, that the "42s" were the last new cars to be delivered, before a style of subway car entered service, the R-44 )followed several years later by the look-alike R-46)
The 42s, also, were the last BMT/IND cars to be furnished with standee straps.
Indeed, times were a-changin'-------------
"NYO"
["Metropolitan Transit Authority"] |
Actually, the "Tee-Yay" insignia had been on the R-38's originally . . .
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4989
(courtesy nycsubway.org)
Basically, only five classes of cars had this insignia: the single-pair WF R-33's; the married-pair WF R-36's; the R-32 "Brightliners"; the R-38 "Brightliner wannabes"; and the slant R-40's. And, viz the buses, the 202 A/C batwing Fishbowl "Bullets" (8001-8202 - amazingly, built after the " 'stoa" 8301-8780, if going by serial numbers). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:31 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
As always, appreciate the input; always something new (old?) to learn......
Did NOT know about the door rebuilds on the GOH-'d rolling stock; again, "if it ain't broke, DON'T fix it!"
STILL have NO idea why the "Em-Tee-Yay" removed the standee straps from the 32s/38s/40s/42s; not only were those straps "traditional", they are also far more comfortable to hold onto than the replacement bars (I'm only about 5' 7")
BUT.....they (thankfully) left the straps intact on the "Redbirds" (also, R-27/30s)
Odd, too, that, with the "Eye-Are-Tee's" R-12/14/15, straps had been replaced with overhead bars (the ONLY IRT cars NOT to have straps then); in later years, however, small "grab handles" were installed along the bars.
Take notice that the IRT equipment returned to straps with the R-17s.
The "Bee-Em-Tee's" rolling stock was quite interesting, in regards to being equipped (or not) with standee straps.
Certain series of Standards (aka "Brooklyn Battleships") had straps, while others did not.
The "C" units also did not have straps; ditto the "D"-type Triplexes and Multi-Sections.
Then, too, the R-11's; they did not have straps when new, but, had them installed when later rebuilt as R-34s...............
"NYO"
["B.M.T. LINES"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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In Greller's "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES", the only buses seen to be furnished with straps were the TDH-5106s (rear area only)
In going far back in my memory, I can remember only SOME "Shermans" here in "Joisey" being equipped with straps; perhaps some (transit) Fishbowls also had them, but cannot clearly recall these.
I know I cannot remember any "Pattons" having straps.............
"NYO"
["SURE-IT'S A MACK!"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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As I had mentioned previously, when new, the R-11s were furnished with overhead bars for standees.
However, when they rebuilt in 1964 as R-34s, they had "traditional" straps installed, much "in sync" with those used on the "Brightliners"............
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2644
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["BUDD"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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The "Aitch & Em".............
Oddly enough, only the original 1908 Class "A" cars were equipped with (leather) straps; none of the H&M's cars, from the Class "B" of 1909, through to (and including) the 1958 "K"/MP-54 class, had straps.
It was not until the arrival of the "PA" cars that straps came back to the "Tubes"'; today, however, like the subways, PATH cars no longer have straps (or, for that matter, railfan windows)...............
"NYO"
["33RD STREET"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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.......in "WELCOME ABOARD THE GM NEW LOOK BUS" (McKane/Squier) there is an interior photo of an "stoa" TDH-5303, with "bowling alley" seating.
No straps/grips are seen in the view.
It would seem to me that, buses that were used on high-density "crush load" routes would be a "natural" to furnish with straps for standing passengers.
I'm now wondering if FACL's "Jetsons" had straps/hand grips, and also, how many "Tee-Yay" Fishbowls had them (what about "stoa"?)
Did any of the "Dangerfields" have straps (or, if you choose, "hand grips"?
RTS?
"NYO"
["OA"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2547 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:15 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | .......in "WELCOME ABOARD THE GM NEW LOOK BUS" (McKane/Squier) there is an interior photo of an "stoa" TDH-5303, with "bowling alley" seating.
No straps/grips are seen in the view.
It would seem to me that, buses that were used on high-density "crush load" routes would be a "natural" to furnish with straps for standing passengers.
I'm now wondering if FACL's "Jetsons" had straps/hand grips, and also, how many "Tee-Yay" Fishbowls had them (what about "stoa"?)
Did any of the "Dangerfields" have straps (or, if you choose, "hand grips"?
RTS?
"NYO"
["OA"] |
As far as FACL "Jetsons" are concerned, I think a good place to start would be the 1963 movie Sunday In New York where quite a few made significant appearances and the insides were shown in scenes where Jane Fonda and Rod Taylor were riding in them. Unless by the point the film was made, " 'stoa" already made changes to the insides of the buses. (I know when first ordered, FACL's "Jetsons" had Grant Electrofarer fareboxes.) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:36 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Thanks for this info; Rod Taylor was always a fave of mine (especially in 1060's "THE TIME MACHINE") and I'd like to see him aboard a FACL "Jetson" (I gotta get "SUNDAY IN NEW YORK" on dvd now!)
Speaking of Fishbowls, PSNJ/TNJ's "Z-300" series transit (purchased about 1967/6 were furnished with leatherette/vinyl seating, bucking the then-popular trend towards hard plastic seating; I rode aboard these veterans twice daily for years, beginning in 1979.
Something else of related interest.......
Notice how interior ads on the buses (here in "Joisey" and in "Noo Yawk") became more and more sparse as the years went on?
Like the subway cars, the ads displayed inside the buses hawked everything from ANACIN to VICKS VAPORUB.
Too, recall the ad panels that were large enough for one "square" ad, which were contoured to fit the curve where the wall met the celing?
I remember the pSNJ/TNJ "Z-300s" having these, but, in later years, they were usually devoid of ad cards........
"NYO"
["TA"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23176 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Note the large curved ad racks on both sides of the aisle here; these are what I was referring to..........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156848
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["New York City Transit Authority"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2547 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:40 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Note the large curved ad racks on both sides of the aisle here; these are what I was referring to..........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156848
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["New York City Transit Authority"] |
Smaller ads ("undertall" in the jargon of Garfield the cat) were usually placed in-between these curved racks.
But the seating on this bus was a conversion in 1972 for express bus service; prior to then, 8466 had regular seating like the other 479 of the A/C batwing "Bullets" made for " 'stoa." (19 of them in total, 8459-8477, were so converted, which was why, of the custom-made T6H-5310A's produced for express bus service in 1972-73, " 'stoa" only got six new 'uns numbered 4500 thru 4505; all of them, for many years thereafter, did express bus duty within Manhattan, on M23X / X23 and the M41 Culture Loop, all of them assigned out of 100th Street depot, now known as "Tuskegee Airmen.") |
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