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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:01 am Post subject: Southwestern Greyhound's Railbuses/SWG history/Pickwick |
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(The following excerpts are from an old issue of "MOTOR COACH AGE", covering the history of SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND; as the cover is missing, I cannot credit the author of this article, nor give an exact date as to when the issue was released)
".......during 1932, one of the type "W's" was converted to a rail inspection car by installing a drive mechanism supplied by the "FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE COMPANY", with steel wheels designed by COTTON BELT engineers....."
".......the success of this vehicle persuaded the railroad institute rail-bus service in 1933, by converting two of SOUTHWESTERN's Z-250's in the same fashion......"
".........previously, the single daily train each way between St. Louis and Dallas had served the Pine Bluff-Texarkana section, at an inconvenient early hour. The rail-buses were then put on between Pine Bluff and Texarkana (152 miles) and the train schedule was rearranged......."
(continued in following post)..........
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:02 am; edited 5 times in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:11 am Post subject: |
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(continuing from previous post):
".......conversion of the Z-250's involved design and installation of lavatories, pilots, sandboxes, and auxiliary water tanks, adding 2500 pounds of additional weight to the coaches......."
".......this extra weight eventually required changing the brake linings because the adhesion factor on rails prevented use of the usual high brake chamber pressure, while maintenance of low pressure proved difficult......."
".....before the rail-buses were put in service, an agreement had been reached to sell SOUTHWESTERN TRANSPORTATION COMPANY to SOUTHLAND GREYHOUND LINES......."
(no further information on these converted rail-buses available in the quoted article)
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Further on "SOUTHWSTERN"........"
".......SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND LINES began to modernize and standardize the fleet during 1934, by adding 17 new YELLOW streamliners....."
"........prior to that time, the main lines of the company had seen a mix of ex-SOUTHLAND coaches (ACF's), MACKS from WESTERN, and WHITES from COTTON BELT, plus YELLOWS from all three predecessors ......"
".......some of these buses were eventually bumped down to lesser routes; another 40 streamliners arrived between 1935 and 1936, and were followed by 125 YELLOW "Super Coaches", the last 10 of which (in the spring of 1939) were diesel-powered and air-conditioned......."
"......in 1938, the last of the second-hand buses were taken off the roster, when SOUTHWESTERN purchased small Chevrolet-powered BECK coaches for use on the minor lines......"
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:38 am Post subject: |
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"......in May, 1936, SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND LINES signed an agreement with R. W. Lee of Oklahoma City, doing business as LEE WAY STAGES, for the purchase of LEE WAY's Amarillo-Albuquerque route. This 295-mile line had already been through several hands....."
"............the company was operated by Archie Tyler's NORTH PLAINS COACHES at the start of Texas bus regulation in 1927, and was leased to PICKWICK-GREYHOUND in late 1931........."
"........Archie Tyler sold the aformentioned bus route in 1932 to Reuben J. Hilton of Amarillo ("TEXAS-NEW MEXICO STAGES"), who then sold it to R. W. Lee in October, 1933......"
"........'LEE WAY' put three YELLOW 732's in service, possibly on this line, in June, 1937. Although Lee's sale of the route to SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND was not formerly approved by the ICC (or the RCT) until 1939, SWG included the line in its 'grandfather' application to the ICC in August, 1936......"
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:47 am Post subject: |
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"......."LEE WAY STAGES" operated an Oklahoma City-Amarillo route that was leased from GREYHOUND, and also ran west from Amarillo to Albuquerque and Raton over its own routes......"
"......three new YELLOW 732's were placed in service during 1937, after SOUTHWESTERN had signed an agreement to buy the Albuquerque line, and had taken back the Oklahoma City route......."
".......it was thought that SOUTHWESTERN actually purchased the 732's, which later came into the SWG fleet along with some small 722's, and, possibly, other buses from "LEE WAY STAGES"........
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:58 am Post subject: |
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"Joint Services".......
"...........bus traffic in the Southwest did not develop to the levels that GREYHOUND considered sufficiently profitable, except on a few major lines. During 1939, "SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND LINES" and "MISSOURI, KANSAS, & OKLAHOMA COACH LINES" agreed to pool their revenues over the St. Louis-Springfield-Joplin-Tulsa-Oklahoma City line they both ran. Expenses were reduced by closing 30 intermediate stations, and each carrier accepted the other's tickets........"
".......'SOUTHWESTERN' received 35 of GREYHOUND's new 325 rear-engined 719's in 1936, and 90 Model 743's between 1937 and 1939, the last ten of these modern buses were equipped with 6-71 diesel engines and air-conditioning......."
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:13 am Post subject: |
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"......'SILVERSIDES' began to roll on GREYHOUND routes in 1940, and 'SOUTHWESTERN' had the first ones built....."
".......YELLOW could not turn out buses fast enough as war-related travel built up, and 'SOUTHWESTERN' was not the only GREYHOUND company that turned to AEROCOACH. Between September, 1941, and the end of 1942, AEROCOACH delivered 34 of its P-33 'MASTERCRAFT' buses to SWG. Still in need of equipment, SWG bought another 35 AEROCOACHES and 60 GM PGA-3702's, between 1944 and 1945......"
".......during 1942, when additional 'SILVERSIDES' were wanted, but could not be built because of wartime restrictions on materials, GREYHOUND bought 325 new YELLOWS of the three types that were built only during that year; these were 95 PD-3301's, 179 PDA-3701's, and 7 PD-3301's........"
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:18 am Post subject: |
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"........in 1950, MISSOURI PACIFIC secured a Houston-Corpus Christi- intrastate certificate to close a gap in its operation, and instituted a pool service with SGL between Dallas and Brownsville, via San Antonio and Corpus Christi......"
".......a Brownsville-Corpus Christi-Houston-New Orleans pool route was set up min 1952, involving MISSOURI PACIFIC, SWG, and 'TECHE'. The railroad sold the MP bus system in 1957; its new owner renamed it 'MIDWEST BUSLINES', and rejoined TRAILWAYS, after which the pools with GREYHOUND were discontinued......"
"......SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND LINES became a wholly owned division of the GREYHOUND Corp in January of 1959, after GREYHOUND had acquired the remaining railroad interests in SWG......"
".......GREYHOUND merged its Central and Southwestern divisions in July , 1960, to form what was originally called 'CENTRAL-SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND LINES', later changed to 'CENTRAL GREYHOUND LINES'........
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:24 am Post subject: |
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".....allocated just 35 of the 100 SILVERSIDES planned to be built in 1947, SWG put 5 ACF-BRILL IC-41's in service on its Dallas-Fort Worth-San Antonio-Corpus Christi route early that year......"
".......these were followed by 10 more, , after which all 15 ran between Houston, Dallas, and El Paso. There were also 3 lavatory-equipped IC-41's , operated in a Houston-New Orleans pool with 'TECHE', and, later, transferred to 'TECHE' for continued operation over that route......."
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:31 am Post subject: |
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"........the first SOUTHWESTERN PD-4104 entered service during 1953; PD-4104 serials 001 and 002 were shipped to Cuba and Mexico as demonstrators........"
".......in 1954, #S-100 was SWG's only SCENICRUISER. SWG eventually had 86 of them, plus 3 transferred from 'CENTRAL'. All but two were still on the roster when the divisions were combined in 1960......."
"NYO" |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2459 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | "Joint Services".......
"...........bus traffic in the Southwest did not develop to the levels that GREYHOUND considered sufficiently profitable, except on a few major lines. During 1939, "SOUTHWESTERN GREYHOUND LINES" and "MISSOURI, KANSAS, & OKLAHOMA COACH LINES" agreed to pool their revenues over the St. Louis-Springfield-Joplin-Tulsa-Oklahoma City line they both ran. Expenses were reduced by closing 30 intermediate stations, and each carrier accepted the other's tickets........"
".......'SOUTHWESTERN' received 35 of GREYHOUND's new 325 rear-engined 719's in 1936, and 90 Model 743's between 1937 and 1939, the last ten of these modern buses were equipped with 6-71 diesel engines and air-conditioning......."
"NYO" |
Interesting history...
Besides SWG and MK&O operating on Route 66 between St. Louis and Oklahoma City, they also competed to some extent with All American Bus Lines. The route across the Missouri section was one of the few places that AABL enjoyed intrastate rights...most everywhere else on their pioneering coast to coast line was restricted to interstate traffic only...
It is interesting to note that for a brief period, MK&O was a Trailways member, dba MK&O Trailways...
MK&O's owner, Robert Allen, also later acquired Mid Continent Coaches, and Oklahoma Transportation Company....the latter two companies were long time pool partners with Continental Trailways division's...Central Lines, and D-CS-P for the former, and Dixie Lines for the latter... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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traildriver:
As always, appreciate the additional historical info you so generously share here....thank you!
In William A. Luke's "TRAILWAYS BUSES", there is a photo of an "SKG" EAGLE Model 01, snapped in 1964.
The "Running Dog" is superimposed over the SANTA FE herald....a vERY sharp touch!
The caption states:
"......SOUTHERN KANSAS GREYHOUND LINES, also known as 'SKG LINES', was half-owned by GREYHOUND; the other half was owned by GREYHOUND. Note that the emblem is a combination of the GREYHOUND dog and the 'SANTA FE TRAILWAYS' insignia. 'SKG LINES' ran between Kansas City, Missouri, and Tulsa, Oklahoma......"
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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(From the aforementioned article in "MOTOR COACH AGE)......
".......the MISSOURI PACIFIC TRANSPORTATION CO. had been one of the original members of the 'NATIONAL TRAILWAYS BUS SYSTEM' in 1936, but withdrew in 1948, when the trustees of the parent railroad , then in receivership, decided to seek additional revenue for the bus lines......."
".....the color scheme of the buses was changed from red and cream to blue and gray. Instead of stopping at more than one terminal in many cities, as they had formerly done, the MP buses began using GREYHOUND stations......"
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Also:
"........by March, 1928, 'SOUTHLAND RED BALL MOTOR BUS CO.' was operating 35 buses over 369 miles of route. the buses were described as 'FAGEOL, STUDEBAKER, INTERNATIONAL, and ACF inter-city, parlor car, and observation parlor car types, seating from 15 to 29 passengers'......."
".......'UNION BUS CO.', based in San Antonio, does not appear to have been a corporation. It was headed by James Amberson and Miller Pendelton, and it must have been a semi-formal consolidation of previously independent operators......"
".....prior to the appearance of GREYHOUND on the scene, Amberson was one of two major figures in the Texas bus industry. the other was R. C. Bowen......"
".....in 1923, R. C. Bowen and his brother, Temple, doing business as Bowen Brothers, began operating a MACK bus between Fort Worth and Mineral Wells, a distance of 45 miles. Additional MACKS were acquired between 1924 and 1925, and the line was extended to Cisco in the Spring of 1926......"
"....R. C. Bowen incorporated WEST TEXAS COACHES in July, 1926. By 1927, 'WEST TEXAS COACHES' was operating as far as Abilene, Sweetwater, and San Angelo, and had at least two REO coaches with 'FITZJOHN' bodies, in addition to its larger buses....."
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Further:
".....in May, 1929, the ownership of 'LONE STAR STAGE LINE' was legally transferred to Bowen's 'WEST TEXAS COACHES', which operated it as a division. At that time, 'WEST TEXAS' (including 'LONE STAR') owned 52 buses, including two TWIN COACH products, 26 big parlor buses of several makes, as well as 24 smaller vehicles (this was including some Buick and Cadillac sedans) for minor branch lines over unpaved roads......."
"NYO" |
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