BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

PSNJ: the last years........
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13 ... 15, 16, 17  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though the HBLR cars are "Light Rail Vehicles", and not "streetcars", they operate underground, between Weehawken and Tonnele Avenue, North Bergen, thus carrying on the tradition of electric rail vehicles operating underground in northern New Jersey.

Previously, the only streetcars that ran underground (operated by PS) were those that used the Newark City Subway, and those that used the Cedar St. Subway (until 1938) in Newark.

Prior to the First World War, there were plan that called for a more extensive underground streetcar in Newark, that would have been similar to Boston's original Tremont St. Subway (today's Green Line)

Today's SEPTA subway-surface lines are modern-day versions of what we would see today in Newark, had the old PS subway-surface car lines not been abandoned......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Philadelphia, the subway-surface car lines branch off from the "main line" underground; there are no surface ramps to bring the cars up to street level, as was the case in Newark (recall the City Subway utilized the former Morris Canal bed; the Rochester trolley subway, also built in an abandoned canal bed, also used ramps to reach street level)

In Newark, there were ramps at Norfolk St. and Bloomfield Avenue, used by cars of the "#23 CENTRAL" and the "#29 BLOOMFIELD"; the only location in the Newark Subway where surface cars branched off underground was at Warren St. (these ramps were were used until 1951 by cars of the "#21 VIA W. MARKET")

All of the old ramps mentioned previously still survive today, though the rails, ties, and signals were torn out in the early 1980's......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is some interesting information on SEPTA's current subway-surface car lines; cars began using the subway in 1906, 31 years prior to the opening of the City Subway in Newark......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA_subway-surface_trolley_lines

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_Street_Portal
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many years back, I recall reading about early proposals for a streetcar subway in Newark; there was also a very interesting bit I had come across, where, there had been even a few proposals for PSNJ to operate a heavy-rail subway in Newark

IMHO, this might have been possibly been along the lines of the Broad Street Subway in Philadelphia.

The closest PSNJ ever came to operating a "heavy rail" rapid transit line was the old "FAST LINE", which once operated between Newark and Trenton.

The equipment used on this line were equipped for MU operation.......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The history and operations of the "Fast Line"......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark-Trenton_Fast_Line
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the Newark City Subway opened in 1935, it served as a conduit for surface cars entering from the suburbs, allowing them fast access to downtown.

After the last of the connecting surface lines (the #29) was converted to buses in early 1952, the Subway, for all practical purposes, became an "urban jerkwater" trolley line, connecting with several PS bus lines at the Franklin Avenue terminal.

There had been talk, interestingly enough, in the late 1960's, of extending the Subway further west, using an E-L line that had recently seen the abandonment of all passenger service.

As I had mentioned previously, after WW2, PS intended to pave over the Subway, and replace the old streetcars with new GMC-built ASV's.

When The City told PS that they (and not the City) would have to pay to have the Subway paved over for ASV operation, PS shelved the plan for new-generation ASV's, and, instead, looked to purchase second-hand cars.

The BRILLINERS that were then running in Atlantic City were, for a time, considered for service in Newark; in the end, PS purchased 30 PCC's from Twin Cities Rapid Transit, which served the Subway until they were retired in 2001......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The streetcar subways of Newark, Boston, Philadelphia, and Rochester all had/have underground "on line" stations".

PACIFIC ELECTRIC's Hollywood Subway was, on the other hand, only a "delivery tube", which connected to the massive Subway Terminal Building in downtown LA.

As Newark was/is New Jersey's biggest city, it comes as no surprise that PSNJ decided to build a (streetcar) subway there; back in the day, downtown Newark was home to many large department stores, not to mention the offices of large corporations, and, also, movie houses.

This is why, until fairly recent times, private carriers like DE CAMP and SOMERSET used Newark as their eastern terminals, for certain lines.

Prior to the conversion of the last of the old subway-surface car lines in 1952 (the "#29") it was possible to "ride the cars" far beyond the Newark city limits, to suburban areas, such as Caldwell.

After March, 1952, one could ride the #7 cars only as far as the Franklin Avenue terminal, on the Newark/Belleville border.

As mentioned previously, the cars of the former "FAST LINE" to Trenton, served the PS terminal (upper level); it is easy to imagine, in later years, inbound "FAST LINE" cars entering the lower level of the Terminal, and then continuing onto Broad St. and Penn Station, via the short-lived connections that had been built between Broad St. and Penn Station, had such a service ever existed.

Interestingly enough, even though through car service to points on the HUDSON and CENTRAL Divisions were available from Newark, there was never any direct service from Newark to Bergen County towns........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite awhile back, Your's Truly had been discussing PSNJ, its rich (and often quirky) history, operations, and equipment, with several other PS enthusiasts; I had agreement all around when I suggested that, had not WW2 intervened, that PSNJ might very well have been an all-rubber tire operaator by about 1940, substituting ASV's for streetcars in the Newark City Subway.

I also suggested might have replaced the entire ASV fleet earlier than they actually did (1948), on lines that did not feed into the City Subway, had the dual-powered buses subbed for the subway-surface streetcars.

At the very least, I could also have seen all streetcars being replaced by about 1940-1942 (with the exception of the Subway) had WW2 not interrupted PSNJ's massive streetcar conversions of the later 1930's.

It was also quite interesting to discuss why PSNJ, given the huge streetcar-to-bus/ASV conversions just a few years after the Subway opened (in 1935), was the City Subway not designed for ASV's only, right at the beginning.

Also, the ASV's, which began running in 1935, were all gone by 1948; the newest vehicles were little more than a decade old, when they pulled down their poles for the last time, when PS decided to convert to all motor buses.......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here assigned to the "#9 CLIFTON" line, Compromise roof car #2752 strikes a timeless pose; cars of the 2600 and 2700* series were the backbone of this line for many years.

This was an ESSEX Division line; it was converted to ASV operation in 1937; though only faintly visible in this photo, you can see the dash placard alerting to riders the upcoming conversion to ASV's.......

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct062.htm

*A number of cars from both series were stored at PASSAIC WHARF for several years after the lines they served went to ASV's and buses.

In 1942, these cars were brought out of storage, and rehabbed for wartime service.......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This 1940's photo looks to have been taken during either an ERA or an NRHS excursion; note elderly work car #5563 (as you can see, this car was converted from a revenue service car, at an earlier date.)

The photo location is ROSEVILLE, on the Newark/East Orange border; this facility was the largest on the ESSEX Division, and, over the decades, served streetcars, ASV's, and buses.

The main building also contained a luncheonette/newsstand, and a waiting room.

It was flanked by two large yards; until 1947, it served the streetcars of the following lines:

#7 CITY SUBWAY

#21 ORANGE

#23 CENTRAL

From 1947 through 1951, cars of the #7 and #21 continued to be stored/serviced here.

By 1953, a new repair facility for the remaining "#7 CITY SUBWAY" cars was built at Penn Station; ROSEVILLE continued to serve buses until the early 1990's, when NJT closed it.

The building was demolished some time afterwards......

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct073.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up until 1937, PS rostered several series of semis, as well as "home-built" open cars.

In 1937, with the conversion to buses and ASV's in full swing, not only were the semis and open cars retired, but, also, the very oldest deck roof cars, then in service over 30 years.

It is also interesting to note that, by the 1930's, with few exceptions, all cars on the HUDSON Division had been converted into single-ended cars.

The very last double-ended (Compromise roof) cars on the HUDSON DIVISION were those being used on the "WEST NEW YORK" and "NORTH BERGEN" lines; these lines were converted sometime in 1937 or 1938.

On the ESSEX Division, however, even though one-man operation had been the rule since the mid-1930's, all cars retained their original double-ended configurations.

Until the mid-30's, cars on the "PALISADE" route were all double-ended; no loop at Palisades Junction was required.

However, after the double-ended Compromise roof cars that served this line were replaced by rebuilt single-end deck roof cars, a new wye was built at the Junction, adjacent to the PS powerhouse.

The last cars on this line ran in September, 1938; "PALISADE" line cars were based out of the WEST NEW YORK car house........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's Compromise roof car #3201 at ROSEVILLE, December, 1947, in the company of asssorted work equipment.

In December, 1947, the "#23 CENTRAL" subway-surface line was converted to buses.

This was the first of the connecting subway-surface car lines to be converted; the "#23" cars branched off from the City Subway at Norfolk Street, and reached street level via ramps and a wooden trestle.

Though the trestle was removed in the early 1980's, the overgrown ramps still remain.

There would be no further conversions of subway-surface lines until late 1951, when the "#21 ORANGE" (both the "main line" and the branch via W. Market St.) went to buses.

After the "#21 ORANGE" was converted to diesel bus, only the cars of the "#7 CITY SUBWAY" remained at ROSEVILLE for a brief time, before the new repair facility at Penn Station was opened, and ROSEVILLE became a bus garage......

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct158.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often been interested in the advantages of single-end vs. double-end. I dislike the loss of seats caused by too many exit doors on Sacramento's system and HBLR, but it allows for island platforms and turnbacks on route. During my lifetime the Newark City Subway went from double-end to single-end, then back to double-end. One of my memories is the red kerosene lamp hanging on the inside rear platform of Hudson County streetcars at night, in case the pole might jump and leave the car dark on a street.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

Your memory is correct; not only did HUDSON Division cars carry a red lantern at the rear at night, they were also equipped with "bug eye" marker lights above the front platform, as was required by a Union City ordinance then on the books.

When the cars on the HUDSON Division were converted to single-end operation, all doors (except the front door, opposite the motorman) were either sealed off or paneled over.

Passengers who were seating/standing near the rear of a given car now had to move forward to use the front door to exit.

Articulated cars (or center entrance cars) would have been ideal to handle rush hour crowds on the "#7 CITY SUBWAY", especially if that line had been designed as a pre-payment line, end-to-end......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For many years, PSNJ equipped their cars with "GOLDEN GLOW" headlights, when operating on long stretches on private ROW.

By the 1930's, four lines were still using these large headlights, which were mounted on the car's dash near twilight (these headlights were mounted on a bracket, and plugged into an outlet on the dash); these four lines were:

"#43 UNION" (ESSEX/CENTRAL interdivisional line)

"#7 CITY SUBWAY" (ESSEX Division)

"HUDSON RIVER" (BERGEN Division)

"PALISADE" (HUDSON Division)

By September, 1938, the only remaining line using "GOLDEN GLOW" headlights was the "#7 CITY SUBWAY"; the old cars continued to use them until they were replaced by PCC's in early 1954........

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13 ... 15, 16, 17  Next
Page 12 of 17

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group