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Railroad buses/rapid transit/ etc.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject: Railroad buses/rapid transit/ etc. Reply with quote

These unique buses never venruted anywhere in Jersey City beyond the CNJ yards as, unless it was traveling to either Manhattan or Brooklyn.

None of these buses, however, ever came anywhere near Journal Square, while they operated.

These were the B&O's train connection buses that were ferried over the Hudson from the CNJ's Jersey City terminal.

The CNJ ferries docked at Liberty St., and until the early 1940's, also at W. 23rd St.

This unique train-connection motor coach service began in the late 1920's, and operated until the B&O abandoned all passenger service to New York (via the CNJ) in 1958.

The B&O buses made several stops in Manhattan, and also picked up passengers in Brooklyn.

Several types of buses were made over the years; the last were WHITE suburbans, equipped with sedan doors.

Though we have, elsewhere here on the board, discussed the B&O bus operations, I thought it well to also include here, as we have, as of late, been discussing the bus operations of Jersey City, in years past......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:10 am; edited 4 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....I have always wondered why the B&O train connection buses never served Journal Square; as Journal Square was the transportation hub of Jersey City during those years, it still seems a mystery as to why the B&O did not operate their train-connection buses out of Journal Square.

Back in those days, with so many local, suburban, and long-distance buses serving Journal Square, and the H&M station also on location, a B&O bus connection, I am sure, could have served a number of passengers here........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the CNJ's proud Pacifics, which hauled the famed "BLUE COMET", is seen here posing just outside the CNJ trainshed at Jersey City, about 1930.

Note the line of B&O buses in the background......

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnj/cnj-s0832vaa.jpg

(courtesy: fallen flags railroads)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this timeless, classic steam-era photo, we see one of the CNJ's familiar workhorse Camelbacks (which made their last runs in 1954), about to pull out with a westbound commuter train from Jersey City.

Look closely in the left background, and you can see the nose of a B&O bus.......

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnj/cnj-s779afm.jpg

(courtesy: fallen flags railroads)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting to note that, though the train-connection buses themselves were owned by the B&O, they were consigned to FACCo.

FACCo. operated the B&O buses until 1947; GRAY LINE then took over, operating the buses until the B&O ended service to New York in 1958........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1930's-era photo of a TARS "Huffliner" streetcar at Columbus Circle; note the electric sign for the B&O's bus station, glimpsed on the right.......

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/tars/htm/tars063.htm

(courtesy: daves's railpix)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So important was the B&O's train-connection bus service that, on the CNJ ferries, the buses took priority over all other vehicles (except for US MAIL and REA trucks)

Autos and trucks (at both Liberty St. and Jersey City) would have to wait on the sidelines for the next boat, while the B&O buses rumbled by to board the ferry.

I have seen photos of CNJ ferries with full gangways of only B&O buses; no other vehicles on board.

After the B&O service ended in 1958, the bus turntable at Jersey City, of course, was no longer needed, but the driveway used by the buses (formerly occupied by Tracks #2 and #3) became a parking area for CNJ employees and "visitors", and was used in this capacity until Jersey City operations ended......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though B&O passenger service to Jersey City ended in 1958, through 1967, it was commonplace to see a heavyweight B&O business car on the tail end of either the "CRUSADER" or the "WALL STREET" (both RDG trains) at the Jersey City terminal carrying brass back to Philadelphia (I remember seeing this scene several times while visiting the terminal with Mom, well over 50 years ago)

Though several bus lines served the PRR's EXCHANGE PLACE terminal (PSNJ, L&G, M&WS), only "CENTRAL AVENUE" served the CNJ's Communipaw terminal (I only remember Old Looks and MACKS on this line)

Today, not surprisingly, there is no trace of the B&O bus turntable, but it is still easy to see the former bus driveway area, underneath the vast and decaying Bush trainsheds.........

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a passenger had to travel long-distance to ride the B&O connection bus. One time Dad brought me on the double-ended streamline Crusader from Bound Brook to Communipaw. That was a Reading operation, no bus connection.
---
On Saturday, April 27, 1958, I met Mom and Dad at Union Station, Washington, when the final southbound Royal Blue arrived. The next day, I saw them off on the Pennsy. A year later, I discovered a Royal Blue antimacassar protecting an armchair at home.
Joe
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

I never got to see the original double-ended streamlined consist of "THE CRUSADER"; those handsome cars were gone in early 1961, and, I believe, were sold to to interests in Canada for further service.

I DO clearly remember the later consists of this train (also, the "WALL STREET") at Jersey City, pre-1967.

Weekend versions of these Jersey City-Philadelphia trains were made up of RDC cars; ConRail ended these two trains (by that time, operating out of Newark), in 1981.

Though the B&O trains out of Jersey City bypassed W. 8th St., Bayonne, and Elizabethport, trains did stop at Elizabeth.

When the B&O began operating the train-connection buses to Jersey City, Tracks #2 and #3 were removed, and the roadbed paved over; this became the driveway for the buses, allowing passengers a direct transfer between rails and rubber......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..........too bad that the B&O Museum down in in Baltimore does not have a restored WHITE on display today, basking in all its classic "B&O TRAIN CONNECTION" livery.

Sadly, at the time that such buses were become redundant/outdated, there was little (if any) thought of preservation. Sad

Good thing some fellows back then were taking photos! Wink

"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B&O was one of many railroads that 'embraced' buses to supplement their train services, rather than loathe them, as many railfans profess to.

There were two distinct ways of doing this, and in fact, the roads that did would usually separate their operations into two. or more separate subsidiary company's...

One of the largest operations was that of the Santa Fe Railway. They purchased the old Southern Kansas Stage Line, and it grew into Santa Fe Trailways, which later on became a major part of Continental Trailways, with operations from Indiana to California, mainly along the routes of its parent AT&SF. They both competed with their parent, and also provided supplementary services for rail passenger's.

The second operation, was strictly for rail connections. They ran buses from Los Angeles Union Station to Bakersfield to connect with Santa Fe's "Golden Gate" trains to and from Oakland or later, Richmond, where another bus would connect to Santa Fe's bus terminal, at 44 Fourth Street in San Francisco. This service provided the fastest 'land time' between LA and SF, beating competing Southern Pacific service via the valley or coast routes.
The subsidiary operating this was Santa Fe Trail Transportation Company, most prominent as a truck line. They also connected with the Western Pacific California Zephyr to and from Oakland, under contract, after WP's former connection, the SP ferry, ended.
This model is still used today by Amtrak, and its contracted 'Thruway' buses.

Other companies....Union Pacific and Chicago & Northwestern ran Interstate Transit Lines, which along with Union Pacific Stages formed Overland Greyhound Lines. At the end of UP passenger train operations with the advent of Amtrak in 1971, UP still had several bus routes they operated from their station in East Los Angeles to several surrounding cities to connect with their City of Los Angeles.

Other RR owned bus lines were by the Burlington,Missouri Pacific, the Denver and Rio Grande, the Frisco, the Reading....all Trailways affiliates. Then the Southern Pacific, and its subsidiaries, and the Great Northern, the New Haven, the Pennsylvania, the New York Central....all Greyhound affiliates.

After World War II, the Interstate Commerce Commission ordered all railroads to divest their interests in bus lines that competed with their trains.

What was left after that, was just a few scattered supplementary operations. Notable exceptions, that lasted into the seventies were the Bangor and Aroostook, and the Gulf Transport, (first GM&O and succeeded by Illinois Central Gulf).
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B&O was one of many railroads that 'embraced' buses to supplement their train services, rather than loathe them, as many railfans profess to.

There were two distinct ways of doing this, and in fact, the roads that did would usually separate their operations into two. or more separate subsidiary company's...

One of the largest operations was that of the Santa Fe Railway. They purchased the old Southern Kansas Stage Line, and it grew into Santa Fe Trailways, which later on became a major part of Continental Trailways, with operations from Indiana to California, mainly along the routes of its parent AT&SF. They both competed with their parent, and also provided supplementary services for rail passenger's.

The second operation, was strictly for rail connections. They ran buses from Los Angeles Union Station to Bakersfield to connect with Santa Fe's "Golden Gate" trains to and from Oakland or later, Richmond, where another bus would connect to Santa Fe's bus terminal, at 44 Fourth Street in San Francisco. This service provided the fastest 'land time' between LA and SF, beating competing Southern Pacific service via the valley or coast routes.
The subsidiary operating this was Santa Fe Trail Transportation Company, most prominent as a truck line. They also connected with the Western Pacific California Zephyr to and from Oakland, under contract, after WP's former connection, the SP ferry, ended.
This model is still used today by Amtrak, and its contracted 'Thruway' buses.

Other companies....Union Pacific and Chicago & Northwestern ran Interstate Transit Lines, which along with Union Pacific Stages formed Overland Greyhound Lines. At the end of UP passenger train operations with the advent of Amtrak in 1971, UP still had several bus routes they operated from their station in East Los Angeles to several surrounding cities to connect with their City of Los Angeles.

Other RR owned bus lines were by the Burlington,Missouri Pacific, the Denver and Rio Grande, the Frisco, the Reading....all Trailways affiliates. Then the Southern Pacific, and its subsidiaries, and the Great Northern, the New Haven, the Pennsylvania, the New York Central....all Greyhound affiliates.

After World War II, the Interstate Commerce Commission ordered all railroads to divest their interests in bus lines that competed with their trains.

What was left after that, was just a few scattered supplementary operations. Notable exceptions, that lasted into the seventies were the Bangor and Aroostook, and the Gulf Transport, (first GM&O and succeeded by Illinois Central Gulf).
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B&O was one of many railroads that 'embraced' buses to supplement their train services, rather than loathe them, as many railfans profess to.

There were two distinct ways of doing this, and in fact, the roads that did would usually separate their operations into two. or more separate subsidiary company's...

One of the largest operations was that of the Santa Fe Railway. They purchased the old Southern Kansas Stage Line, and it grew into Santa Fe Trailways, which later on became a major part of Continental Trailways, with operations from Indiana to California, mainly along the routes of its parent AT&SF. They both competed with their parent, and also provided supplementary services for rail passenger's.

The second operation, was strictly for rail connections. They ran buses from Los Angeles Union Station to Bakersfield to connect with Santa Fe's "Golden Gate" trains to and from Oakland or later, Richmond, where another bus would connect to Santa Fe's bus terminal, at 44 Fourth Street in San Francisco. This service provided the fastest 'land time' between LA and SF, beating competing Southern Pacific service via the valley or coast routes.
The subsidiary operating this was Santa Fe Trail Transportation Company, most prominent as a truck line. They also connected with the Western Pacific California Zephyr to and from Oakland, under contract, after WP's former connection, the SP ferry, ended.
This model is still used today by Amtrak, and its contracted 'Thruway' buses.

Other companies....Union Pacific and Chicago & Northwestern ran Interstate Transit Lines, which along with Union Pacific Stages formed Overland Greyhound Lines. At the end of UP passenger train operations with the advent of Amtrak in 1971, UP still had several bus routes they operated from their station in East Los Angeles to several surrounding cities to connect with their City of Los Angeles.

Other RR owned bus lines were by the Burlington,Missouri Pacific, the Denver and Rio Grande, the Frisco, the Reading....all Trailways affiliates. Then the Southern Pacific, and its subsidiaries, and the Great Northern, the New Haven, the Pennsylvania, the New York Central....all Greyhound affiliates.

After World War II, the Interstate Commerce Commission ordered all railroads to divest their interests in bus lines that competed with their trains.

What was left after that, was just a few scattered supplementary operations. Notable exceptions, that lasted into the seventies were the Bangor and Aroostook, and the Gulf Transport, (first GM&O and succeeded by Illinois Central Gulf).
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B&O was one of many railroads that 'embraced' buses to supplement their train services, rather than loathe them, as many railfans profess to.

There were two distinct ways of doing this, and in fact, the roads that did would usually separate their operations into two. or more separate subsidiary company's...

One of the largest operations was that of the Santa Fe Railway. They purchased the old Southern Kansas Stage Line, and it grew into Santa Fe Trailways, which later on became a major part of Continental Trailways, with operations from Indiana to California, mainly along the routes of its parent AT&SF. They both competed with their parent, and also provided supplementary services for rail passenger's.

The second operation, was strictly for rail connections. They ran buses from Los Angeles Union Station to Bakersfield to connect with Santa Fe's "Golden Gate" trains to and from Oakland or later, Richmond, where another bus would connect to Santa Fe's bus terminal, at 44 Fourth Street in San Francisco. This service provided the fastest 'land time' between LA and SF, beating competing Southern Pacific service via the valley or coast routes.
The subsidiary operating this was Santa Fe Trail Transportation Company, most prominent as a truck line. They also connected with the Western Pacific California Zephyr to and from Oakland, under contract, after WP's former connection, the SP ferry, ended.
This model is still used today by Amtrak, and its contracted 'Thruway' buses.

Other companies....Union Pacific and Chicago & Northwestern ran Interstate Transit Lines, which along with Union Pacific Stages formed Overland Greyhound Lines. At the end of UP passenger train operations with the advent of Amtrak in 1971, UP still had several bus routes they operated from their station in East Los Angeles to several surrounding cities to connect with their City of Los Angeles.

Other RR owned bus lines were by the Burlington,Missouri Pacific, the Denver and Rio Grande, the Frisco, the Reading....all Trailways affiliates. Then the Southern Pacific, and its subsidiaries, and the Great Northern, the New Haven, the Pennsylvania, the New York Central....all Greyhound affiliates.

After World War II, the Interstate Commerce Commission ordered all railroads to divest their interests in bus lines that competed with their trains.

What was left after that, was just a few scattered supplementary operations. Notable exceptions, that lasted into the seventies were the Bangor and Aroostook, and the Gulf Transport, (first GM&O and succeeded by Illinois Central Gulf).
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