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[NJ]When route signs look like destination signs
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 832
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:43 pm    Post subject: [NJ]When route signs look like destination signs Reply with quote

Our friend NYC Omnibus 2629 posted a link to three Public Service buses lined up at Exchange Place.
Photo https://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4233
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I call attention to the Public Service habit of naming routes. The name of the route can be misleading.
Bus E173 is marked 16 Journal Square. That is the route, not the destination, which is 32nd Street in Union City. On the return trip to Exchange Place, the larger sign would still say 16 Journal Square.
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Likewise, 1 Newark means it runs on Newark Avenue. Presumably it will continue to 20th Street in Newark. On the return trip to Exchange Place, the larger sign will still say Newark.
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This is quite confusing to the new passenger who may discover that the bus marked 1 Newark has already left Newark.
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Decades ago, we visited New Orleans, and New Look buses on Tulane Avenue carried only the word TULANE on front and side. Instinct had to tell you whether the bus was going uptown or downtown.
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I notice other route signs hanging from the rafters, 9 Newark Avenue and 43 Jersey City.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16930
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

Back in the day, I can well remember the South Hudson Boulevard buses (SHBL) displaying both "JERSEY CITY-BAYONNE LOCAL" and "10-JERSEY CITY-BAYONNE".

I remember the Red & Tan's buses displaying "MARION LOCAL" in the sign box (this route later went to the MONTGOMERY & WEST SIDE" ("The Red Bus")

Then there was a now long-gone PS/TNJ route, the "#19-26".

I also remember NHBL buses displaying a white-on-red "GARAGE" sign, when they were deadheading back to home base; I also remember some of the "Boulevard" buses displaying a "NO PASSENGERS" reading at such times (again, white-on-red)

Then, too, there were buses that used the word "CAR" instead of "BUS" on signs indicating the the bus was full: "CAR FULL", which was clearly a holdover from the trolley era.........

"NYO"

*The old HUDSON Division streetcar lines, unlike their ESSEX Division counterparts, were not numbered; only the route was displayed on sign boards and roller curtains.

On the ESSEX Division, beginning about 1927, PS began using numbers to identify both streetcar and bus routes.

The streetcar lines all received odd numbers.


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16930
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

Check out these two circa-1955 photos of the old PS terminal at 168th St., Manhattan, used prior to the opening of the GWB terminal in the early 1960's:

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4229

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4235

Note the various signs for the different routes; this station was adjacent to RED & TAN's terminal, and FACCo's buses were just a stone's throw away......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this mid-50's photo, we see a PS Old Look about to pull under the waiting shed at Hoboken, running on the #19.

In later years, I remember the "19-26"........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4223

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When this classic photo was snapped back in the early 80's, NHBL #B-151 was one of the very last Old Looks in service on the Boulevard.

The bus is signed "#1-JOURNAL SQUARE", but was clearly on some sort of a charter, when this photo was taken at the old Meadowlands Sports Complex.

I know I rode this same bus many times over the years; when I was growing up in the 1960's, the NHBL's #1's and #5's ran right by our old Union City apartment house, providing some great bus-watching entertainment for Your's Truly! Wink

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3597

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 832
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your reference to
https://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4229

which shows PS bus A182 leaving the West 168th Street terminal on route 98 River Road to Edgewater shows something of interest to me. This bus precedes those with paired windows, as those in the E series. My first look at a GM bus with paired windows came when the B39 replaced trolleys on Williamsburg Bridge in December, 1948. Instead of the through-routed trolleys, one had to use the free transfer on a lane on the north side of the bus plaza. Brand new buses were placed on this bridge route. If you were a Brooklyn trolley customer, the B39 gave you a free ride to Delancey Street. The other option was to purchase a 5-cent transfer to the subway at Marcy Avenue.
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Back to New Jersey: Did buses in the B, C, or D years have paired windows?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

The oldest photo I have seen of a PSNJ paired-window Old Look depicts a new "C" Series (#C 522) 1948 TDM-4509 (this publicity photo can be found in "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES", by Ed Stauss)

This bus had a single door, and was obviously used in suburban service.

There used to be an outstanding PSNJ site a decade or so ago (I think a fellow named Dave Mackey ran it), but, sadly, it has long since vanished from the internet. Sad

It featured many photos, and also had detailed fleet information; this site was an invaluable research site for PS historians while it was still up........

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This rainy-day scene at Hoboken was taken about 1955, and shows a PS paired window GM behind a square window model.

The lead bus is signed for the #15; this was, originally, the "PASSAIC" streetcar line (the "White Line"); between 1936 and 1937, it was converted to ASV operation, which, itself, went to bus in 1948.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4224

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 832
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The photo linked below from Bing Images is dated 1948 and is what I recall of the Bergen Avenue buses. As a kid from New York, I could not figure out why every bus on Bergen Avenue was marked LOCAL. Only the painted name on the bus and its color scheme would tell the rider the route, namely all of Bergen Avenue and beyond. What manufacturer made this bus? Thanks.

LOCAL bus linked HERE.
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kdr3bt



Age: 70
Joined: 03 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy! I miss Fanny Farmer.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16930
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
The photo linked below from Bing Images is dated 1948 and is what I recall of the Bergen Avenue buses. As a kid from New York, I could not figure out why every bus on Bergen Avenue was marked LOCAL. Only the painted name on the bus and its color scheme would tell the rider the route, namely all of Bergen Avenue and beyond. What manufacturer made this bus? Thanks.

LOCAL bus linked HERE.


Joe:

THANK YOU for posting these wonderfully nostalgic old Journal Square bus pictures! Very Happy

Some of these relics I can remember still in service, back in the early and mid-1960's; Mom and I took MANY "bus jaunts" in Jersey City, back then! Very Happy

The "flat nose" bus in the picture that I think you are referring to is, of course, a FORD; as to the other, older bus, I am not at all sure; it MIGHT be a either a MACK or a YELLOW.

As I've said elsewhere, due to WW2, many "indy" companies "made do" with their old fashioned-looking front-engined buses; many such buses lasted in regular service into the early postwar era.

DE CAMP, as an example, was still operating front-engined YELLOWS and WHITES into the early postwar era, when they were finally replaced by new GMC's and ACF-BRILLS.

Back in the 30's and 40's, there were (besides GREYHOUND) other long-distance carriers that served Journal Square, including:

MARTZ

CHAMPLAIN

EDWARDS

GOLDEN ARROW

Hope this information helps out.....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

There is an interesting photo in William A. Luke's "BUSES OF ACF", showing a new 1938 ACF Model H-13-S (single door), lettered "HUDSON COUNTY BOULEVARD" (numbered B-53)

According to the text, the bus was an "indy", owned by Frank Duprey's "FD&DS BUS COMPANY", then located in Bayonne.

The front sign reads:

JERSEY CITY-BAYONNE

The side sign, interestingly, reads:

51st ST. NEW YORK

The text also states that, at that time, SOUTH HUDSON COUNTY BUS OWNERS ASSOCIATION was a "member company", operating their buses between Jersey City and Bayonne.

The Association then had sixty-seven owners.........

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 832
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Boy, I miss Fanny Farmer."
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Is the photo of Journal Square? or a nearby street? I cannot figure out the location.
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Mom thought Fanny Farmer was a treat. Only now I realize the skills needed to make those perfect little items. Maybe I was more interest in M & M's.
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In 1948, Fanny Farmer opened a factory at West 240th Street and Corlear Avenue. Of course, Mom brought my sister and me on the open house tour, with free samples in the celebration. In 1964, Manhattan College purchased it.
https://manhattan.edu/news/archive/2013/07/old-and-new.php
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16930
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
"Boy, I miss Fanny Farmer."
---
Is the photo of Journal Square? or a nearby street? I cannot figure out the location.
---
Mom thought Fanny Farmer was a treat. Only now I realize the skills needed to make those perfect little items. Maybe I was more interest in M & M's.
---
In 1948, Fanny Farmer opened a factory at West 240th Street and Corlear Avenue. Of course, Mom brought my sister and me on the open house tour, with free samples in the celebration. In 1964, Manhattan College purchased it.
https://manhattan.edu/news/archive/2013/07/old-and-new.php


Joe:

That photo is indeed at Journal Square; in the photo, if you were walking to the right (south), you would be walking towards Sip Avenue.

In fact, in the McNulty Jersey City book, there is a WW2-era photo taken from above, looking up Sip Avenue (east), at the south end of Journal Square; a front-engined bus is seen loading, facing south on the Square (it might be the same bus seen in your photo), and "FANNY FARMER" is one door away from Sip Avenue, with "ADAM'S HATS" on the corner.........

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another "local/suburban" bus company that served Journal Square was the now-obscure "JERSEY CITY & MONTCLAIR BUS COMPANY".

This company was founded in 1927, and, in 1928, was extended to Caldwell.

It operated a single route between Journal Square and Caldwell.

In 1939, the company purchased four new ACF Model 26-U buses (single door)

In 1941, this company was taken over by DE CAMP; after the War, the line was renumbered #22 (when I was growing up, Mom and I often rode this now long-abandoned line out to Verona, to visit my aunt, uncle, and cousins, who then lived in West Orange)

Back then, Old Looks and ACF-BRILL C-44's were used on that line, which DE CAMP regarded as a "stepchild" for many years........

"NYO"
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