BusTalk

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Joe:

You are quite welcome!

Back in the 70's/early 80's, when I would take the PATH tubes to "PAVONIA" to explore the ruins of the former ERIE terminal area, that was when Pavonia Avenue still went down to the waterfront.

Back then, only a handful of freight/warehouse employees used that PATH station, which was, at the time, closed nights and weekends.

Here is information on the route of the "PAVONIA" streetcars:

From Union City, (inbound to the ERIE terminal) cars traveled south along Summit Avenue to a complex junction in Jersey City, where the tracks running along Hoboken Avenue, Newark Avenue, and Summit Avenue all converged.

There, cars of the "PAVONIA" line swung off onto Hoboken Avenue, then used a stretch of private ROW to Monmouth Street; the cars then ran on Momnouth St. to 7th St., before heading up Erie St.

There, the cars switched tracks again, this time heading east along Pavonia Avenue en route to the ERIE terminal.

Outbound cars (from the terminal) used 9th St. instead of 7th St., heading towards Hoboken Avenue.

This map was printed in "THE PUBLIC SERVICE TROLLEY LINES IN NEW JERSEY, by Edward Hamm, Jr.

Hope this helps!

"NYO"

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Joe:

Until 1923, another PS car line served the ERIE terminal on Pavonia Avenue; this was (originally) the "ERIE" line.

This line began at the Exchange Place terminal, ran west on Montgomery Street, then Newark Avenue, then north on Erie Street, where it connected with the "PAVONIA" line for the remainder of the trip to the ERIE ferry terminal.

Returning, the "ERIE" line ran west on Pavonia Avenue to 7th Street, then along Jersey Avenue, where the cars swung eastward on Newark Avenue, south onto Grove Street, then along Wayne Street, Gregory Street, and York Street to the PRR Exchange Place terminal.

In 1916, interestingly, the "ERIE" and "HENDERSON" lines were consolidated into a new "CROSSTOWN" line.

From the ERIE terminal, the cars ran along Pavonia Avenue, Erie Street, Newark Avenue and Henderson Street to Grand Street.

Returning, the cars went north on Henderson Street, and the east on Pavonia Avenue, and then down to the ERIE terminal.......

"NYO"

[N4 Jamaica]

About six years ago, realizing that my grimy basement was being overloaded with books, I sold my $50 copy of Hamm for $20. Error!

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At the time that PSNJ converted the last HUDSON Division car lines in August, 1949, only two waterfront terminals still had streetcar service (in addition to bus lines)

The NYCRR's West Shore terminal at Weehawken was, in 1949, served by the "UNION CITY" line, in addition to buses (ASV's also served the NYC terminal until 1948)

At the elevated DL&W terminal in Hoboken, all four remaining HUDSON Division car lines ("UNION CITY", "SUMMIT", "JACKSON", "OAKLAND") terminated here.

I have seen, over the years, several very old drawings and postcards that depict an enclosed, elevated walkway that connected the trolley terminal to the upper level of the DL&W ferry concourse.

In the Hoboken H&M concourse, there were signs directing connecting passengers to the trolley terminal upstairs:

"TO ELEVATED STREET-CARS".

By 1949, the PRR's Exchange Place terminal had not seen streetcars for several years, while the ERIE terminal saw its last streetcars in 1938, eleven years earlier.......

"NYO"

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"Compromise" roof car #3258 is seen here about to enter the Elevated Hoboken terminal.

Though the car is signed for one of the "War" lines, "FEDERAL", the car is in actuality, operating on an NRHS fan excursion (this would date the photo to the early post-WW2 period)

The brick building on the right was owned by the H&M )later PATH) and housed an elevator that was used to deliver the original Class "A" cars in 1908; in more recent years, the elevator hauled PATH flat cars from the tunnels up to the surface, to be loaded/unload with maintenace supplies..........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct071.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

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This photo (going by the color scheme of the streetcar) would date to the 1930's, or the very early 1940's.

The "Compromise" roof car is sporting the "De Luxe" scheme of the late 1920's, which PS applied to refurbished and repainted cars.

The car here is rolling down the private ROW from Boulevard East, heading for the trolley/bus shed at the West Shore Terminal at Weehawken.

Until 1938, cars of the "PALISADE" line also used these rails.

By 1941, the very last PS cars wearing the "Deluxe" scheme on the HUDSON Division had been repainted.......

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct136.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

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Car #2808 has just crossed Boulevard East and is about to enter the private ROW down to the West Shore terminal, in the late 1940's.

Note ad on front dash for Palisades Amusement Park.

Though this ROW is now closed off, the steel pylons on the right are still intact, as are the line poles mounted in the concrete retaining wall.........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct151.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

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Cannot have a discussion on the railroads that served the Hudson County waterfront without mentioning the long-defunct Hoboken Shore Railroad......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoboken_Shore_Railroad

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Here is an excellent, "in depth" site dedicated to the Hoboken Shore Railroad, which saw its last trains running through the streets og Hoboken in the late 1970's.

As a kid, I used to call this railroad: "the little freight train that runs in the street like a trolley"

There is much of historical interest here, maps, photos, and more.....enjoy!

"NYO"

http://hbs.railfan.net

*This photo, taken during a 1964 NMRA excursion, shows fans actually being allowed out on the floatbridge (Egads! Imagine such a thing today??)

Note. also, the GE-44 tonner and car float.

This same set-up (with switcher, carfloat, and a steam tug) can be seen in the 1954 classic film, "ON THE WATERFRONT", when "Terry" (Marlon Brando, long before his legendary role as "Don Corleone" in "The Godfather") tells "Evie" (the lovely Eva Marie Saint) that he set her brother up to be "knocked off".......

http://hbs.railfan.net/hbs21.jpg

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Note to traildriver:

These two circa-1970 photos, taken at Weehawken (note Lincoln Tunnel helix in the background) show several old "SEATRAIN" vessels that clearly have weathered more than a few storms over the years.

They were docked at piers that were originally owned by the ERIE; I can still remember seeing "SEATRAIN" ships clearly from my brother's huge kitchen picture window on Palisade Avenue (Union City) from 1966 through 1974!)

http://hbs.railfan.net/sea1.jpg

http://hbs.railfan.net/sea2.jpg

(courtesy: Hoboken Shore Railroad Homepage)

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Note the two CAREY PD-4104's at Hoboken, carrying NMRA members to an excursion tour of the HSR, back in 1964 (I was only 7 back then!)

Also, note that sharp two-tone '58 Ford on the right!

http://hbs.railfan.net/hbs20.jpg

(courtesy: Hoboken Shore Railroad Homepage)

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More on SEATRAIN*.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seatrain_Lines

*There are also some interesting historical photos on this page.....

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"VOYAGE OF 'SS SEATRAIN TEXAS', CODE NAME: 'TREASURE SHIP' "

This is a most interesting story, to say the least (also, there are maps and vintage photos)

http://www.usmm.org/seatraintexas.html

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More on "SEATRAIN" ships and WW2 (also, Vietnam)...........

http://www.shipscribe.com/usnaux/APM/APM09.html