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Journal Square, again
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:52 pm    Post subject: Journal Square, again Reply with quote

A New York City thread has drifted across the Hudson to Journal Square. To my amazement, the "Transportation Center" is now 45 years old or so. The other thread has pointed out that the shops around Journal Square lost much of their trade when waiting bus passengers were directed to wait on the platforms of the inside bus lanes. The result was unintended, but it was also a dumb move.
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NYO 2629 wrote that he last visited the terminal in the year 2000. That's about the same year that I decided to explore it, to see what services it offered. Not much! The Wikipedia site has a nice list of bus routes, but I got the impression they seldom dropped by.
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We must remember that Journal Square was the new version, the upscale version of downtown Jersey City. It thrived in the 1940's and 1950's, particularly with the movie trade. I have no hope of visiting it now (aching feet), but I wonder about passenger loading. Maybe in 2011, I was at Newport Centre, saw a van heading for Journal Square and North Boulevard, and took it. The fare collection resembled what I saw in Nogales, Sonora, a wooden tray for change and small tickets for accounting. The lady driver's accent seemed Cuban. She maintained a friendly chatter with her passengers, and I eavesdropped, enthralled.
---
Adding the van and the full-size buses, I wonder what the current boarding figures are for the terminal and neighboring corners.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

The final (and biggest) nail in Journal Square's coffin was the opening of the PATH Transportation Center in 1974; the removal of the buses from the Square deprived the many stores and restaurants of needed "foot trade".

Recall, also, the off-street PSNJ terminal on Sip Avenue, that also had served streetcars.

The last of the old establishments still operating in the Square was "BOULEVARD DRINKS"; however, this was 20 years ago.

Regarding "dollar vans", they totally dominate my area these days; NJT buses are, indeed, in the minority.

NJT also cut back the #22 to Nungessers about 15 years ago, but did nothing to "beef up" #159 service to pick up the slack.

Some long-gone stores I remember as a kid:

J.M. FIELDS DISCOUNT DEPARTMENT STORE

THE GLOVE SHOP

CHARLES' MEN'S WEAR

FLAGG BROS. SHOES

KITTY KELLY

WOOLWORTHS

TUBE BAR

BETTINGER's (liqours)

NAPLES ON THE SQUARE

5 CORNERS BAKERY

PATHWAY BAKERY

THEODORE THE FLORIST

UNITED SHIRT SHOPS

NEDICK's

BARNETT'S

ROSS (jewlers)

CANTON GARDENS (Chinese restaurant)

There were also two (at one time) opulent hotels:

HOTEL EARLE

THE PLAZA

There was also the "JERSEY JOURNAL" newspaper (today, the last Hudson County daily) and TRUST COMPANY OF NEW JERSEY (we could see its huge electric rooftop sign from our kitchen window in Union City!)

Back in the 70's and into the 80's, in the bus concourse, there was a display case that featured "head on" snapshots of the different buses that used the terminal, showing their route numbers and destinations (man, I'd love to have those old photos today; they were probably simply all tossed in the trash, years ago)

As the years went by, it was easy to see that the frequency of buses had dropped quite substantially, from the levels that were standard pre-1974.

When the old H&M station was being demolished in the early 70's, and so much was being destroyed, many rat's nest were disturbed, and, eventually the rat problem got so bad in JSQ that bus drivers were ordered to keep their doors closed unless they were loading and unloading.

Not surprisingly, the rats also began to invade the local businesses as well; I recall reading about this in both the old HUDSON DISPATCH (long gone) and the JERSEY JOURNAL.

My mother, who was always terrified of rats (I'm not too keen on them either) now was looking in seven directions at once when we were at the Square, either to go shopping, see a movie, or take "the tubes" into New York (usually 33rd St.)

Back in the 1930's and 1940's. several long-distance bus companies also served JSQ (besides GREYHOUND), including:

MARTZ

GOLDEN ARROW

SAFEWAY

EDWARDS

CHAMPLAIN

All this transportation and business activity indeed made Journal Square the "Times Square Of Hudson County".

How very fortunate I am for my many, many memories of the Square when it was still a bustling hubbub activity......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Journal Square I grew up with (1964).........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?650

(courtesty; bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

......prior to the opening of the PATH Transportation Center, the old H&M station (before several phases of demolition began taking place) had several entrances/exits at different locations.

The main entrance (with its escalators and staircase) opened off the "concourse" (this was near the old "A.J. LAMONT" news kiosk)

There was also a wooden escalator from the PSNJ concourse.

An enclosed overhead passageway connected the station with Jones St. (itself now long gone), on the north side of the station; this bridge ran over the northernmost tracks, and its grimy windows afforded a great view of the H&M/PATH trains as well as PRR trains.

There was also a combination passageway/stairway that ran under the Boulevard, connecting the "J.M. FIELDS" store with the western end of the H&M/PATH station.

One by one, these entrances either vanished or closed as demolition of the old station progressed.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is an interesting picture from 2011, taken from the westermost end of the PATH platforms at Journal Square.

Note the dimly-lit area up in the recess of the archways; this was part of the old passageway that once connected (back in the 60's) the western end of the H&M/PATH station to the "J.M. FIELDS" store, on the west side of the Boulevard.

As a small kid, I can remember being to look down and seeing the roofs of the H&M/PATH cars down below, and hearing the screeching wheels and chattering compressors......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?143169

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a timeless scene that could never be duplicated today.

In this 1965 view, we are looking west from the Newark-bound platform, as a string of elderly (soon to be replaced) "Black" cars awaits the next call to duty.

Also clearly visible here, is the old overhead enclosed bridge that connected the north end of the station to Jones St.

Note, too, the PRR catenary, and the incandescent "bulb cluster" platform lights.

The station house windows just over the string of "Black" cars here, also afforded great views of the trains as they left and approached the station.

This was another scene that was so much a part of my childhood years........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?21746

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From: "JERSEY CITY: 1940-1960" (Kenneth French)......

".........the construction of the PATH building in the 1970's led to much decay in the Square, as bus commuters were now kept away from the shopping areas....."

Indeed........

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The photo by Roger Arcara is remarkable, with three Hudson County Blvd buses, each from a different builder. B-113 is a Mack, with a GMC to the left, and a White passing the Mack. I presume all are on route 5 to North Bergen. Am I correct that this paint scheme was used only on route 5?
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I shudder at the Marine Corps recruiting office in front of Loew's Jersey. Too many of the high school grads of 1964 died in Viet Nam.
---
It appears that #5 is now NJT #88 with base headway of 15 minutes.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
The photo by Roger Arcara is remarkable, with three Hudson County Blvd buses, each from a different builder. B-113 is a Mack, with a GMC to the left, and a White passing the Mack. I presume all are on route 5 to North Bergen. Am I correct that this paint scheme was used only on route 5?
---
I shudder at the Marine Corps recruiting office in front of Loew's Jersey. Too many of the high school grads of 1964 died in Viet Nam.
---
It appears that #5 is now NJT #88 with base headway of 15 minutes.


Joe:

The NHBL buses all shared the same basic paint scheme, regardless of the route(s) they were assigned to; however, there were some slight variations over the years.

NHBL also rostered other model MACKS; I believe these might have been C-49's. These buses had a fancy gold script in the stripe beneath the windows, spelling out:

"HUDSON COUNTY BOULEVARD"

WHITE 798's were also rostered by NHBL.

I also remember square-window Old Looks in the NHBL fleet; AFAIK, these were all gone by 1967, along with the MACKS and the WHITES.

Back in those days, the #5 displayed a black-on white "5" card (seen in the WHITE's windshield) both in the windshield and the right rear window.

The GM and MACK are both operating on the #1 (to Nungessers)

In my area, the #1 was known as the "#1 local".

As these buses ran right by our old Union City apartment house when I was growing up, I knew them QUITE well, and Mom and I rode them frequently.

Glad I have the memories! Wink

"NYO"

*Yes, FAR TOO MANY of our "boys" never came home from " 'Nam"; it seemed as though every time you turned around, some young man in your neighborhood was either on his way there, or had been just reported MIA, or worse.

Thankfully, both my older brothers (in their 30's by that time and who had children) never had to go; I, myself, was a grade school kid during that time, but "'Nam" was everywhere you looked....on television, in the papers, and magazines.

Even as a kid growing up them, it seemed a sad and turbulent time, especially as we neared 1970.......


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one is truly timeless.....

Here is NHBL Old Look B-151, at the old GIANTS Stadium (this bus must have been on some sort of charter or fan trip)

This bus was one of several in the fleet that did not have rear doors; this bus, as well as a few other Old Looks (B-116, B-118, and B-145) lasted until the last Old looks were retired in 1986.

These buses were rugged, well-built, and indeed, quite handsome....I miss them still.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3594

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is NHBL Fishbowl B-114, just a few blocks from JSQ, back in 1972*.

By this late date, almost all NHBL #5 runs were held down by Fishbowls; the Old Looks remaining in the fleet were mostly relegated to service on the #1.

Note the "5" card in the windshield, used on all NHBL #5's (JSQ-PABT) for many years........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?651

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

*Note, also, the "mod pod" phone "booths" on the right, and the equally "mod" First Jersey wastebasket.......
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What were the destinations of #1 and #5? The photo of B-144, with the tower of St. John the Baptist in the background puzzles me. Is the bus really northbound? I cannot figure out this photo while looking at a map.
Thanks.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="N4 Jamaica"]What were the destinations of #1 and #5? The photo of B-144, with the tower of St. John the Baptist in the background puzzles me. Is the bus really northbound? I cannot figure out this photo while looking at a map.
Thanks.[/quote

Joe:

Both the #1 and the #5 started at the same "curb terminal" at JSQ (there was a starter's booth here as well)

The #1 ran the length of the Boulevard from JSQ north to Nungessers (at the Hudson County/Bergen County border); there was an off-street terminal here, that also served the NHBL #4, which ran north from Nungessers to (if I'm correct) Ridgefield.

The #5 ran the same route as the #1, but, near the off ramps for Route 3 (S-3) in Union City, the #5 would make a right turn, and head for the Lincoln Tunnel.

The photo of B-114 is looking NORTH; the bus was about diagonal across from the STANLEY theatre, and was only seconds away from its Journal Square terminal.

Hope this helps! Wink

John
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, the NHBL also ran the seasonal #2; this summer-only line, starting at JSQ, basically was an extension of the #1.

Instead of terminating at Nungessers, the #2 continued on, northward to Palisades Amusement Park (which closed in 1971)

When the Park closed, this line was abandoned.

These buses were always VERY crowded with fun-seekers (I only remember Old Looks being used on the #2)

Mom and I often used this line, as one of my my brothers then lived next to the Park's parking lot, and so, this made for a very easy trip for us, coming up from Union City! Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting note:

One of the roller curtain readings on the operating end of PATH's new "PA" cars in 1965 ("A" cars only) read:

"EXP.-HUD. T."

Prior to the Aldene Plan in 1967, PRR/PATH "joint service" express runs between Newark and Hudson Terminal were operated during the rush hours.

Back in the "Black Car" days, there was also local service between Journal Square and Hudson Terminal; back then, there were also "GROVE-HENDERSON" trains that operated between GROVE-HENDERSON (GROVE ST. today) and HUDSON TERMINAL.

Westbound trains arriving at Grove-Henderson would discharge their passengers from Hudson Terminal, pull out of the station, and then switch over to the eastbound track.

After the motorman "changed ends", the train would then pull back into the station, now bound for Hudson Terminal........

"NYO"
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