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MaBSTOA T6H-5309A (and El replacement buses)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

You're the man for this.....

Did each garage/depot have its own "sign shop", or was this the sort of work done in only the larger facilities?

Also, when were the last cloth curtains replaced by Mylar?

Appreciate info.....

"NYO"

If not by Hunter Illuminated Sign (on the cloth roll signs), then one of the major facilities within this vast colossus had to have handled the job. I see c.1960-64 'Tee-Yay' roll signs with the same kind of loping type as on some MaBSTOA left-side roll signs of similar vintage. (The '4', for example.)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22165
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Thanks.

I've long wondered the same about PSNJ's "sign shops", back in the day.

In Newark (ESSEX Division), Plank Road was THE facility that handled virtually any and all work (this facility also refurbished the second-hand TCRT PCC cars prior to their entering service on the City Subway, in late 1953 and early 1954)

I can see Plank Road doing "sign work"; then again, UNION CITY and GREENVILLE (HUDSON Division), ROSEVILLE (ESSEX Division) and MARKET STREET (CENTRAL Division) were all large facilities were much heavy work was done on the streetcars, ASV's, and buses, throughout the years.

It IS sobering, to say the least, to think of how many hundreds.....thousands....of roller curtains removed from the buses when they were retired decades ago.....were so casually tossed in the dumpster (no wonder what survives today goes for BIG $$$$ when they are sold or auctioned..... Sad

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22165
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Signs of the (olden) times"......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154605

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155562

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154901

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154929

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["3 St Geo Ferry"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22165
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also:

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155702

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154925

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153543

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["37 THIRD to CONCORD ST."]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#155702's side sign mounted atop bus #6861, as I may have noted elsewhere in other posts, is a vintage 1965 sign; the 'FIFTH AV' with far-away spacing as part of the 15 designation gives it away. Come the late 1966 signs made for the A/C batwings and you have a closer-spaced 'FIFTH AVE' on that same line for that same route.

As for that 101 branch, we are a month away from it being created upon the conversion of Third and Lexington Avenues to one way in different directions. This branch, which was designated as from 125th Street to 23rd Street, was basically a reworked version of the old NYCO #3 which had been discontinued that July day in 1960. At the onset it was driven by FACL drivers out of 100th Street depot, on ex-NYCO buses renumbered in the 4000's and having 'SURFACE TRANSIT INC.' on the sides, unlike the regular 101 (and another short-run 101 branch from 96th Street to 6th Street) that were both under Surface's purview.

['101 TO 125 ST-3 AVE']
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22165
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As always, appreciate the always-detailed (and always interesting) historical info! Wink

Here in "Joisey", none of the major arteries were buses ran were changed, direction-wise (at least, not in my time)

Bus routes in my general area were, of course, subject to re-routings and detours due to road work, construction, etc., but there was none of the major "direction changing" that was occurring in "Noo Yawk", back in the day.

Though many long-established lines have either been truncated or abandoned over the years, most basic "patterns" remain the same, despite the passing of the years......

"NYO"

["17 SUMMIT"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question, here:

When did the "Em-Tee-Yay" retire the last of the "original" MaBSTOA Fishbowls and "Dangerfields"?

These days, I would assume that it is only the oldest "Em-Tee-Yay" drivers/mechanics who have even heard of MaBSTOA.

Appreciate info.......

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was mentioned that the last of the "Dangerfields" were retired in 1993, around the same time the last of the unrebuilt Fishbowls were.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
I think it was mentioned that the last of the "Dangerfields" were retired in 1993, around the same time the last of the unrebuilt Fishbowls were.


W.B.:

Thanks.

I see my memory was pretty much correct; I seem to remember the "Dangerfields" disappearing about that time (I recall noting that I was seeing less and less of them, by that time)

The very last Fishbowls that I can remember seeing was about 1996/1997......

"NYO"

["Em-Tee-Yay"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Da Bronx" (1972)

Here we see a scruffy-looking first-generation MaBSTOA Fishbowl (#3172) at Bryant & Westchester.

#3172 is clearly in need of a little TLC (also, note incomplete sign)

The bus is also devoid of any advertising (was retirement for #3172 looming on the horizon?)

Sights like the gutted apartment house on the right (and the overloaded dumpster) would, sadly, become more and more commonplace (and dangerous) as the decade wore on.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153831

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["35 CROSSTOWN"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
"Da Bronx" (1972)

Here we see a scruffy-looking first-generation MaBSTOA Fishbowl (#3172) at Bryant & Westchester.

#3172 is clearly in need of a little TLC (also, note incomplete sign)

The bus is also devoid of any advertising (was retirement for #3172 looming on the horizon?)

Sights like the gutted apartment house on the right (and the overloaded dumpster) would, sadly, become more and more commonplace (and dangerous) as the decade wore on.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153831

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["35 CROSSTOWN"]

First up, it was one year before this and the remaining first-gen Fishbowls first put into service in 1960 were indeed retired, so yeah its days were numbered. Secondly, this appears to be another that, when first delivered and assigned to Surface Transit (part of 3161-3210 that were first put into service in November 1960, together with FACL's 3111-3160), often handled the M-104 Broadway or M-106 42nd Street Crosstown lines (maybe even M-103 59th Street Crosstown). In short, from the highs of Midtown and the bright lights of Broadway to the lows of 'da Bronx' before that area really went down the "terlet."

["106 42ND ST. CROSSTOWN"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Greatly appreciate the info....thanks; I had a feeling that #3172 was indeed living on borrowed time.

Given that "da Bronx" was rapidly sinking into a cesspool of crime, arson, and decay, one can indeed be glad that the battered Old Looks and MACKS that SURFACE once operated were already long-gone.

I STILL think it a miracle that none of the "Em-Tee-Yay's" bus fleet ever was splattered defaced and doused with the same massive dose of graffiti that the subway's rolling stock did..........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fresh Pond Road, many years ago; as can be seen here, these unfortunate OOS Fishbowls are not long for the world...... Crying or Very sad

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?38573

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?41792

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same location, in 1970.

Note the two lonely and forlorn "Dangerfields" between the BMT tracks; surely, such recent buses would not already have been earmarked for scrap? Sad

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?150774

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["BMT LINES"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
The same location, in 1970.

Note the two lonely and forlorn "Dangerfields" between the BMT tracks; surely, such recent buses would not already have been earmarked for scrap? Sad

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?150774

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["BMT LINES"]

No, those "Dangerfields," this early, would have been put there in-between carrying passengers to and from their destinations. In short, that area was more a rest stop than anything else.
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