BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Speaking of wooden seating......

We cannot not mention the wooden seats* that were used atop the older open-top FACCo double-deckers.........

"NYO"

["GO THE MOTOR COACH WAY"]

*Interestingly, I've seen some very old photos of open-top Los Angeles double-deckers furnished with rattan seating........

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

In the classic 1951 children's book, "BLUNDERBUS" (the story of "Old Number 3", the last open-topper on 5th Avenue), we are told.....

"......people had been proud to ride him, then. His paint had glittered, his windows had sparkled, and 'his seats had been upholstered in bright yellow straw'......"

So, there were some FACCO open-top buses with rattan seating?

IMHO, it would seem rattan would not be a good choice for upper-deck seating, when it rained or snowed......

"NYO"

["FIFTH AVENUE COACH COMPANY"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

.....had double-deckers been still in operation in "Noo Yawk" by the mid-late 1960's ,it would be a given that these buses would also have had their original seating replaced by fiberglass.

As much as I loved the "open toppers", it must have meant less folks carried during rainy/snowy weather, unless they were cramming aboard the "Queen Marys and single-deckers......

"NYO"

["Don't Rain On My Parade"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

From: "FIFTH AVENUE COACH COMPANY"(Ogden).....

"........an afternoon rain might cost the Company $1,000 in fares, a morning rain, $2,500........

".......on a fair Sunday, as many as 130,000 people might turn out, clamoring for choice upper-deck seats......"

".....but the open-top bus did not earn its keep. . It was serviceable only half the year, losing half its capacity during a summer rain....."

Aaah, well, into every life a little rain must fall.....

".......

"NYO"

["Raindrops keep fallin' on my head"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Too, with the older open-top buses, regardless of the type of seating used (upstairs), I'm wondering if one of the bus crew would wipe down the seats after a rain, to enable folks to sit on dry seats.

Even with protective varnish, it would seem that these seats needed some sort of "upkeep", over time (chipping, etc.).......

"NYO"

["I'm singin' in the rain"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Given the fact that the open-toppers were not earning their keep (especially during inclement weather) I still wonder why FACCo did not:

A): Rebuild all open-top buses in the fleet to closed top, by the later 1920's/early 1930's.

B): Replace all open-top buses with new single-deckers prior to WW2.

C): Order enough "Queen Mary" types to completely replace the open-top fleet.

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Recall, also, the prototype "TD-4501" (#2500), built in 1940, but designed during 1939.

This FACCO "demo" was said to have been YELLOW's answer to the double-decker (seating capacity, 54)

I can easily see a fleet of these big buses replacing the open-toppers entirely, long before 1946, had WW2 not intervened......

"NYO"

["22 42 ST"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

In Guy E. Martin's "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES", this bus was (in the photo caption) designated "TD-5401" (guess this was a typo)

Yes, WW2 indeed through everything out of whack; especially regarding mass transit.

Of course, the powerful demand for mass transit, coupled with gas and rubber shortages, really created headaches for transit brass, here in "Noo Yawk", "Joisey", and elswhere.

From the Ogden book:

".......along with most other bus companies, FACCo was ordered by the Office Of Defense Transportation to reduce tire mileage and gas consumption with the onset of World War Two........"

"......in December, 1942, Route #9 was discontinued (once again), Route #19 was operated during rush hours, only, and route #20 was cut back to 55th Street and 12th Avenue......"

"........the Convent Avenue branch of Route #3, together with Routes #6, 16, and 20 were abandoned altogether, but resumed in August, except that the #16 stayed out of service until November, 1945......"

"NYO"

["GO THE MOTOR COACH WAY"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

#19 remained a rush-hour only service until its discontinuance on March 1, 1962 at the point of the TWU strike against FACL and ST. It was revived on Dec. 6, 1965 - 23 years to the day after that FACCo service change - as a rush-hours-only branch of the (M)5 and, as such, remained in service (with ever dwindling ridership levels) until it was finally discontinued for good in 1988.

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[MaBSTOA 15]

New York Omnibus 2629... you mentioned the prototype TD-4501... this was not a prototype but actually 44 were built all for Chicago Motor Coach. They were nothing more than a Yellow Coach model 740 stretched one extra window.

Here are three views of this model.

The prototype was #2500, originally a Yellow Coach model TD-55, it was 41'7" long. it was changed to TD-5501 and after it was rebuilt to 39' feet long it was reclassified as the TD-5401.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Thank you for these wonderful old photos, as well as providing me with the correct information.

It never ceases to amaze me as to just how many errors one will encounter within the pages of an otherwise "professional" publication....

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Given how crowded FACCo buses could get, especially during rush hours, articulateds would have seemed to have been a good choice for double-decker replacement.

However, recall that, some 70-odd years ago, articulated buses (at least in this country) were rare, and not as "flexible" as today's passenger-swallowing "caterpillars".

In the late 1930's, TWIN COACH built a four-axle articulated bus, for the BTC (Baltimore)*

Ironically, this huge bus was dubbed "Queen Mary".

The major drawback to this unique vehicle was that it was not able to bend horizontally, making it very difficult to make turns.

Omaha purchased 15 "SUPER TWIN COACH" articulated buses, beginning in 1948; these buses also, like the 1930's "QUEEN MARY" could not bend horizontally.

15 of these coaches were motor buses; one was a trolleybus.

It would have been quite interesting, to say the least, to see a fleet of these operating for FACCo.

I have seen photos (some posted here on this board) of the demo "SUPER TWIN COACH" that went on trials in late 1947 in "Noo Yawk" (according to "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM BUS & TROLLEY COACH FLEET" (Greller), this bus operated on the Flatbush Avenue streetcar line......

"NYO"

*Not surprisingly, the BTC was not all that enamored with this highly-unorthodox bus (#1019)

It originally suffered (diesel) engine issues, but these were later rectified.

Under slippery conditions, the bus had great difficulty climbing hills; this was especially troublesome when the bus was accelerating after a stop on a hill.

The "Queen Mary" served the BTC into the 1940's, later to be scrapped by a local Baltimore scrap dealer.

["TWIN COACH"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

BTC must have had all the luck, first with those early proto-Artics, then with the RTS'.