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MaBSTOA T6H-5309A (and El replacement buses)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I guess Mom was right, after all....the old AT&T building WAS/is a "LEGO" building, for sure.....cannot believe you made a "replica" out of LEGO! Shocked Shocked (GREAT LINKS, btw; I know I learned something from them!)

Now, talk about a skyscraper whose top looked like a face.....

https://www.thetravel.com/history-singer-building-nyc-lost-skyscraper/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singer_Building

I well remember my favorite downtown skyscraper as a kid, especially when approaching on either an E-L or CNJ ferry.

I still recall the granduer of the lofty, ornate lobby (there were connections to the H&M/PATH and the subways from this area); I was QUITE impressed, despite my tender age!

How they managed to destroy such a magnificent building for that ugly-as-heck, insipid steel box (Merril-Lynch, One Liberty Plaza) was sheer stupidity (recall, the loss, a few years earlier, of the original Penn Station, and what uninspired structure replaced it)

The "Singer" was wonderfully "spoofed" in a 1947 animated "Bouncing Ball" cartoon, "MADHATTAN ISLAND" (Paramount Famous Studios); this classic was shown on TV back in the 60's quite frequently (I, of, course, ALWAYS enjoyed it.....it is now on Youtube.....it is A MUST for anyone into "Old New York"!!)

We see the upper floors of the Singer Building "morph" onto a face (QUITE easily!) and we hear the building begin to "sing"! Shocked

The Lincoln Tunnel is similiarly spoofed (with a steady stream of buses exiting the portal!)

The subway was also spoofed; you see a VERY realistic BMT "Standard" (EASILY recognized as such, even in animated form roaring like a lion!); also, a group of cartoon-y straphangers jamming aboard an IRT car, which is obviously loading at the old City Hall loop!) Shocked

(The Flatiron Building, Radio City, and the Woolworth Building are also "spoofed", ditto the elevator operators at the Empire State Building!)

Ahhh, what once was.......(be sure to check out that 1947 cartoon "MADHATTAN ISLAND" on Youtube!) Wink

"NYO"

["Cortlandt St."]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further on the aforementioned 1947 cartoon, "MADHATTAN ISLAND".....

When the part comes on about the Lincoln Tunnel, the nararrator mentions "two tubes" under the Hudson; recall, the third tube would not open until 1957! Shocked

"Noo Yawk" cabbies (of course!) are also lampooned (another subway scene in this animated short depicts the interior of what, clearly, is an IRT car! Wink

And, early on, when the skyscrapers are spoofed, the "Singer" Building (literally) gives us a command performance! Very Happy

(As I had mentioned earlier, in the Lincoln Tunnel sequence, we see a steady stream of bus coming in from "Joisey"!) Wink

As Paramount Famous Studios (like the old Max Fleisher studios) were located in "Noo Yawk" , it is no wonder that this cartoon really "hit home"! Very Happy

"NYO"

[<Uptown>"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 55
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From 1944 until its 1960's closure, Famous Studios was located at 25 West 45th Street between 5th and 6th Avenues. 'Noo Yawk' indeed. It was descended from Max Fleischer's studios which were in the city until 1937 when he moved to Miami, FL. And quite a few Fleischer toons of the early '30's screamed "Noo Yawk" as well.

['5 SIXTH AVE.']
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
From 1944 until its 1960's closure, Famous Studios was located at 25 West 45th Street between 5th and 6th Avenues. 'Noo Yawk' indeed. It was descended from Max Fleischer's studios which were in the city until 1937 when he moved to Miami, FL. And quite a few Fleischer toons of the early '30's screamed "Noo Yawk" as well.

['5 SIXTH AVE.']


W.B;

Agreed, 100%! Very Happy

The old Fleischer cartoons usually found SOME way of instilling a bit of "Noo Yawk" into one of their cartoons, no matter what the storyline was.

For instance, in Betty Boop's "Betty In Blunderland" Betty (as "Alice") follows the March Hare down the rabbit hole, which is entered through an IRT-style kiosk!

In Betty's "The Candid Candidate" (1938), the new mayor (inventor "Grampy") improves rush hour subway service by having the trains (clearly IRT!) emerge from an (IRT) station kiosk and roll up into an office building, where passengers board, before the train goes back underground! (this premise was also seen in the early moments of Betty's "Making Stars", 1935)

Betty's "Riding the Rails" (1938) HAS to be the BEST animated tribute to the IRT ever (it is QUITE obvious that the Fleischer animators/artists were QUITE familiar with the IRT (the prewar subway whistles are right on the mark!)

The subway company, which was clearly spoofing the IRT, was the "Trample 'Em RR" Laughing

There was also, in later years, a "Popeye" cartoon (Paramount) where Popeye and Olive are in Mexico City to see a bullfight.

You see a (what else?) IRT kiosk, and, emerging from the kiosk, we see Popeye and Olive in a small cart, which is pulled by a burro, with them standing up, holding onto straps....the wooden cart is lettered "INTER-BURRO SUBWAY"! Shocked

Several Fleischer/Paramount cartoons also featured glimpses of the noisy, clattering Manhattan Els.

Yup, these classic cartoons were TRULY "Noo Yawk", through and through! Wink

"NYO"

["Trample 'Em RR"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 55
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From 1944, through its 1956 reorganization as Paramount Cartoon Studios, to its final closure in 1967, here's what bus rolling stock would have been run through Fifth and Sixth (the latter a.k.a. 'Avenue of the Americas' after 1945):
- Open-top buses and 'Queen Marys' (FACCo)
- Yellow 718's, 728's, 731's and 740's (mainly NYCO)
- Yellow TD-4502's and 4505's (NYCO)
- GM TD-4506's (FACCo, NYCO)
- GM TDH-4507's (FACCo, NYCO)
- GM TDH-4509's (FACCo, NYCO)
- GM TDH-5104's (FACCo)
- Mack C-50DT's (FACCo)
- Whites (FACCo)
- GM TDH-5106's (with the boxy front roll sign) (FACL / FACO and NYCO Divisions)
- GM TDH-5301's (FACL / FACO and NYCO Divisions)
- GM TDH-5303's (1963, 1964, 1965 and 1966-67 orders) (MaBSTOA / FACO and NYCO Divisions)
On crosstown streets, the 4506's and 4507's, plus later 5104's and 5106's plus the 5301's and 5303's would have been on the 42nd Street side (natch', Surface Division), along with the Mack C-45's; and the 'Bingham Macks', 5106's, 5301's and 5303's on the 'Tee-Yay' side at 49th and 50th (plus whatever bus rolling stock the East Side and Comprehensive Omnibus entities used on that route prior to the 1948 takeover by the 'Bee O'Tee', probably 5101's or 4510's as well).

The studio saw the gradual changeover of Sixth to one-way northbound (north of 34th Street in 1957, south of 34th in 1963), and of Fifth to one-way southbound (in 1966). It lasted through a great deal of bus strikes (1949, 1953, 1962 and of course 1966). But it shut down before the 'Em-Tee-Yay' came along and took over everything.

['5 Fifth Ave Riverside Dr']
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

GREAT post and GREAT info; thanks for taking the time to post this info! Wink

Obviously, there were more than a few Paramount Famous Studios animators/storyboard guys who were also pretty familiar with crowded "Noo Yawk" buses; in a late 1940's "Popeye" cartoon, "Olive Oyl For President", in a dream sequence, Miss Oyl sings of her plans for the country if she is elected (done in song)

We see crowds of passengers jamming aboard a city bus as she sings:

"If I were President!

If I were President!

Each bus would have a smoother run-

with lots of seats for everyone!"

The camera then pulls back to show a bus with something like a half-dozen decks! Shocked (eat yer heart out, FACCo!)

After winning the election in Popeye's dream, we see President Oyl in the White House/Capitol, now wearing a man's suit (Sorry, Hillary, Olive Oyl beat ya to da punch!) Rolling Eyes

In the early Fleischer cartoons, phonograph records were used (in part) for musical backgrounds; I read of one incident where one Fleischer employee had gone downtown on the El to buy a certain record (recall, back then, how easily the records would break); on the return trip, the swaying of the crowded El car and the shifting, standing passengers caused the record to crack......the Fleischer employee had to get off at the next station, and then look for the nearest record/music store! Rolling Eyes

In one of the classic "Casper The Friendly Ghost" cartoons (it might have been "Boo Moon", showed a mob of terrified, scrambling straphangers making a mad dash out of (yep, you guessed it!) an IRT kiosk, as "Casper" strolled casually out behind them (those once-familiar kiosks were, indeed, truly icons of "Noo Yawk", seen in so many old movies and cartoons, where a "Noo Yawk" feel was needed)

In another circa-1950 Paramount cartoon, "Sing Or Swim", spoofing Coney Island, we see a subway train speed into the Coney Island station, lurch to a screeching stop, and, as the sides of the cars roll back like sardine cans, we see the station platform overflowing with hoards of sardines, all carrying valises! (Mom always said that, when they used to take the BMT El out to Coney Island in the 1920's and early 1930's, such scenes were NOT exaggerated at Stillwell Avenue!)

This "subway trains as sardine cans" gimmick was also used in 1939's "All's Fair At The Fair", spoofing the 1939 World's Fair; again, we see a train of sardine cans on rails pulling into the World's Fair station, the sides rolling back, and mobs of well-dressed fair-goers being expelled onto the platform!

Recall, both the IRT and IND provided direct service to the Fair; the BMT offered train-connection service (using rebuilt, gussied-up "Q" cars), while the LIRR also got into the action.......

"NYO"

["<World's Fair-Times Square>"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat May 21, 2022 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Heigh-Ho To The Fair!" (by bus and subway!)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153260 *

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45209 **

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26510

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75917

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?132267

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?112774

*(First-generation Fishbowl #2116 on a World's Fair run)

**(First IRT cars without vestibules; also, first IRT cars equipped with end roller signs)

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["Express To World's Fair"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 55
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 1464
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I.I.N.M., at least part of the IND connection to the World's Fair was built over with the Van Wyck Expressway, thus unlike 1939-40 they were at a disadvantage in 1964-65.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2034
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That photo of the IND World's Fair station showed a pretty substantial looking station for one built to last only two summers. I would have loved it if it had still existed when I lived only a mile or so away, where the line crossed under Jewel Avenue, if they had built a station there...

The only part of the route remaining is the segment from the Queens Blvd. mainline connection out to the yard, still used for trains to and from the yard alongside the Van Wyck Expwy extension.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Agreed; that WAS a pretty substantially-built station to serve for only TWO the seasons of the Fair; I always thought it quite interesting that the IND's World's Fair line used yard leads to connect to the new (temporary) ROW.

As we both know, both the IRT and the IND offered direct service to the Fair; the BMT, however, as mentioned earlier, relied instead on a "train connection" service, where their steel subway trains connected with the refurbished wooden "Q" El cars, for that final leg to the fairgrounds.....

"NYO"

["Express To World's Fair"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also......

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/IND_1939_Worlds_Fair_Line

["GG-World's Fair"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16952
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mention must be made of the famed, landmark Parachute Jump, for decades, an iconic Coney Island attraction and landmark.

It was originally built for the 1939/1940 World's Fair, and, after the Fair closed, it was dismantled (like a giant ERECTOR set!) and transported to Coney Island, where it served thrill-seekers well into the 1960's.

Though, at the time it was still in operation, Your's Truly was too young to take a ride "up the cables", I DID have a LOT of fun simply watching it in operation, back in the day.

In the early/mid-1980's, years after it had been closed down, I would take the subway out to Coney and just sit on a bench on the boarwalk and look at it, now silent, gaunt, and rusting, with its old cables still eerily flailing in the sea breeze.

It was, however, not at all difficult for me to imagine it back in its heyday, amid all the noise, hubbub, and jingling, hooting carousel music of the Coney Island of yesterday...... Wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_Jump

["Step right up, folks! Step right up and take a flight up on the Parachute Jump!"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this nostalgic scene (Stillwell Avenue, 1969) we see a train of classic prewar IND cars* holding down a "B" run, with the iconic Parachute Jump seen looming in the background......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1753

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["Stillwell Avenue, last stop!"]

*(Note historic car #100 in this view!)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truly a relic of not only the subway's past, but also, Coney Island's (how well Your's Truly recalls gazing up at this relic* of the past, way back when!) Wink

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?87565

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*(Note, on this old sign, that "CULVER" has been eradicated, with "IND" in its place, with blank space to spare!)

["Sea Beach Express"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was, after all, in-between the two seasons of the 1964-65 World's Fair, that there was a split in which manufacturers the 'Tee-Yay' and MaBSTOA ordered from, for new bus fleets.

MaBSTOA stayed loyal to GM, with Fishbowls 5201-5525 scattered amongst five of the six depots in Manhattan (54th, 100th, 132nd, 146th and Amsterdam - 12th Street was the depot in Manhattan where old buses basically went to die), and the last ten (5516 onwards) with what would in later years be called 'Batwings'. This order was designated MB-15-OA.

But the TA went off the beaten path and took a chance with Flxible, for buses #5001-5165 (order #MB-15). I don't know if this was the original intent or what, but definitely by early 1966, every bus in that order was cooped up (with a few 1960 order Fishbowls) at Flatbush depot (thus the beginning of the legend of their being the Rodney Dangerfield of bus fleets). Quel shame that they couldn't have apportioned 20 or 25 of these buses to, say, 126th Street depot in Manhattan to show they too were "with it" on the "shiny and new" route. But then again, they already had the first 149 or so of the 350 Fishbowls of the 1963 order (the last where both TA and MaBSTOA went with the same manufacturer for new buses until the 1966-67 order for A/C batwing Fishbowls) plying 1 Madison-Chambers, 3 49th-50th Crosstown, 7 65th Street, 11 York Avenue, 13 Journal Building and 15 First and Second Avenues.

Both buses were the last (and in Flx' case, the only) to have rear windows come out of the factories with 3 pieces. Beginning the next year they'd all be 4-piece. And after the last season of the '64-'65 Fair was over, the "split order" principle still held for the time being - TA getting Flx's 5601-5790 (order #MB-16), MaBSTOA GM's 6401-6900 (order #MB-16-OA; last 200 batwinged).
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