BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

MaBSTOA T6H-5309A (and El replacement buses)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 12, 13, 14 ... 23, 24, 25  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> New York City Buses
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 55
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 1393
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Washington Plaza, 1972.

Note how the silver numbers on Fishbowl #6000 are quite difficult to decipher, in contrast to the gold number adorning Flex New Look #5058's dash.

Though both buses are assigned to the "#44", note the roller curtain (lettering) size difference between the Fishbowl and the Flex......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154621

(courty: nycsubway.org)

#5058 used a recycled roll sign from the first Fishbowl order the 'Tee-Yay' ever made, in 1959; 6000's (the very first of the two-tone blue set) was later 1960's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I guess "recycling", then, is not a new thing! Wink

Going back to buses which replaced El trains (Myrtle Avenue/Bronx 3rd Avenue) did anyone ever do a "time comparison" comparing the length of time that the trains took from "A" to "B", to that of the replacement buses?

Recall, also, that the buses had to contend with varying traffic conditions, as well as traffic lights; the El trains, of course, were free of these conditions.

Though the "Tee-Yay"/"Em-Tee-Yay", I am sure, were happy to rid themselves of these old El lines, I'm wondering just how much "progress" was made, time-wise, by replacing the elevated trains with buses.....

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two views of the El at Gun Hill Road, in 1973, not long before the line closed.

In each photo, a MaBSTOA bus is seen beneath the el structure; here again, you have to think:

ONE bus, even if jammed full of standees, is NOT going to have anywhere near the capacity of a rapid transit train consisting of several cars*......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?57207

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?57206

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*(In today's world, a replacement BRT [Bus Rapid Transit] route might have worked; perhaps, as an El alternate, dedicated bus lanes)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fordham Road, as seen in 1965 and, eight years later, in 1973 (two Old Looks and two Fishbowls [you have to really squint to find the second Fishbowl] are present in the 1965 photo).......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?43163

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?57189

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tremont Avenue, 1973......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2744

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of some interest.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_Rapid_Transit
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until 1946, TARS streetcars ran beneath the 3rd Avenue El in Manhattan; SURFACE buses replaced the streetcars, and, in turn, SURFACE bue were replaced by MaBSTOA buses in the early 1960's.

In 1973, the Bronx section of the 3rd Avenue El was closed; area riders now depended on MaBSTOA buses.

In 1969, when the Myrtle Avenue El in Brooklyn was closed, the only option that former El riders had were, again, the buses ("Em-Tee-Yay")

Though, of course, the buses were capable of far greater flexibility than any of the rail-bound streetcars that they replaced, they still could not hope to measure up to the high-capacity levels of the elevated trains.

That ANY sort of "El" survives today in the City is largely because these lines were extensions of subway lines, where a good proportion of the routes themselves are underground......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recall, also, the short BMT Culver Shuttle (elevated) which closed in 1975.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/BMT_Culver_Line
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also:

www.culvershuttle.com

www.culvershuttle.com/history/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culver_Shuttle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W. 8th St., 1955.........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?109385

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stillwell Avenue, 1977.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154920

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154789

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1950's Brooklyn.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?30941

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?140669

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditmas Avenue, 2009.

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?102143

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

Rubber-tired milk cartons have long since replaced the "classics", the old Culver Shuttle (and the trains* that served it) is now but a distant memory.........move on, folks, nothing to see here....... Sad

"NYO"

*(The R-46's, are already deemed a "classic" by many enthusiasts today (after all, they date back to the 1970's!), but they DO look quite "humdrum" these days, without their original blue striping)

In the meantime, here's a bit of nostalgia from 1978....... Wink

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?5756

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.......interesting, too that what later became MaBSTOA eventually replaced two rail lines, both streetcar and rapid transit.

Here again, even if SURFACE service along the former route of the 3rd Avenue El in Manhattan was increased, the buses still could not compete (capacity/speed-wise) with the El trains, even as elderly as they were.

Recall, also, there were those ever-optimistic folks that indeed believed that the new 2nd Avenue subway would soon be built, and put into service; remember, too, the extra burden placed upon the already-overcrowded East Side IRT (Lex) lines, when the 3rd Avenue (Manhattan) line closed.

In 1946, SURFACE purchased 97 TD-4506's and 103 TD-4507's; that same year saw the end of TARS conduit streetcars in Manhattan.

Interestingly, in Guy E. Martin's book "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES", there is no mention (in the MaBSTOA chapter) of the new buses (the T6H-5309A's) that were purchased to replace the 3rd Avenue El trains in the Bronx (1973).......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 16471
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just came across the following from an online article......

"......on April 29th, 1973, the Bx55 Limited bus replaced the now-discontinued 3rd Avenue el trains. These (MaBSTOA) buses only made stops at the locations of the former (IRT) El stations......"

".....this line was also one of the first in the city to have free transfers with the subway at the 3rd Avenue-149th Street and Gun Hill Road (IRT) stations......"

"NYO"

See also.......

www.bronxtimetraveler3.weebly.com/history.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_routes_in_the_Bronx

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?/img/maps/calcagno-1973-3rdave.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> New York City Buses All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 12, 13, 14 ... 23, 24, 25  Next
Page 13 of 25

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group