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Rollsigns/batwings/readings/routes, etc.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:00 pm    Post subject: Rollsigns/batwings/readings/routes, etc. Reply with quote

Fellows:

Am curious to just where the rollsigns for "Tee-Yay" (MTA) buses were maintained, altered, etc.

Did this take place at the "home" garage of a certain bus/bus series?

I've certainly indeed learned from the highly-astute, highly-knowledgeable, "Higher Powers That Be" here on the forum that the study of vintage rollsigns is indeed a fascinating "side hobby" onto itself.

How were these curtains spliced; how were they changed to reflect a route or destination change?

I know this all ended when the last of the Fishbowls/New Looks were retired, and all bus signage became electronic.

Appreciate any info....thanks in advance.....

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 972
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been, on eBay, "altered" front roll signs from the 146th Street depot, dating to c.1975. Several "newer" sections were grafted on to a 1964 roll sign, including the 1969 portion which indicated "10 TO 3 ST AVE OF AMERICAS." The more recent section in such "Frankenstein" roll signs was from after what had been (M)2A was renumbered M2 in 1974. (I say 1964, because one of the southern termini listed for M10 was Cortlandt Street - and that branch had its south end trimmed in 1966 to Vesey Street just before that area in lower Manhattan had several streets demapped in preparation for building the vast [original] WTC complex.) I have to presume the cut-and-paste jobs would have been done on site itself.

We know that old front roll signs, when certain groups of buses were shifted from one depot / garage to another, would have been taken out of said buses and saved to put on newer buses. This is why you see pics c.1972 of 1965-66 or 1967 Fishbowls with front signs from the 1963 order (three of the four depots in question that got the first group of made-for-MaBSTOA New Looks - West Farms, Amsterdam and 132nd Street; don't know about the other). This was true with the 'Tee-Yay' too; I've seen quite a few pics of the 1967 A/C batwing Fishbowls earmarked for them, bearing front roll signs originally on 1960 'Tee-Yay' fleets. And that's just on the (M)15 First and Second Avenues line in Manhattan!
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Once again, thank you for taking the time to post additional historical information regarding the roller curtains of old; through you, and Mr. MaBSTOA 15, I've truly learned that the study of roller curtains themselves is indeed a fascinating "sideline" study for the bus hobby. Wink

The other question that has been on my mind is when did the transition to mylar roller curtains begin? (I'm guessing that FACCo. SURFACE/NYO buses only had cloth curtains, but am only hazarding a guess)

What about FACCO's oft-ignored Fishbowls?

Did these have mylar curtains, or were still using cloth?

Again, thanks for sharing such fascinatign "in depth" info.......... Very Happy

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random glimpses of vintage MaBSTOA signage.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?810

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?812

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?788

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?789

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1979

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show/1987

(courtesy:bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vintage roller curtains, "Tee Yay"-style..........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1468

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1470

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1476

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1566

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?635

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 972
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

Once again, thank you for taking the time to post additional historical information regarding the roller curtains of old; through you, and Mr. MaBSTOA 15, I've truly learned that the study of roller curtains themselves is indeed a fascinating "sideline" study for the bus hobby. Wink

The other question that has been on my mind is when did the transition to mylar roller curtains begin? (I'm guessing that FACCo. SURFACE/NYO buses only had cloth curtains, but am only hazarding a guess)

What about FACCO's oft-ignored Fishbowls?

Did these have mylar curtains, or were still using cloth?

Again, thanks for sharing such fascinatign "in depth" info.......... Very Happy

"NYO"

When FACL's (and Surface Transit's) 'Fishbowls' first entered service, they would have no doubt been mylar; the fonts on those roll signs were definitely unique to Transign which introduced the mylar roll sign. It was only after they were all corralled into the Bronx Kingsbridge depot that they would have been replaced with cloth roll signs made no doubt by Hunter Illuminated Sign Co. They, and the 1959 'Tee-Yay' New Looks that first saw service only in Brooklyn, would have been the first to sport mylar roll signs.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Thanks! Very Happy

Also interesting to hear of mylar signs being replaced with cloth curtains, instead of the other way around.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random "rollers" through the years.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1552

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2391

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?672

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?679

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2800

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2796

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

Thanks! Very Happy

Also interesting to hear of mylar signs being replaced with cloth curtains, instead of the other way around.......

"NYO"

Based on some of the routes, these replacement cloth curtains were drawn up in early 1964.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

Thanks! Very Happy

Also interesting to hear of mylar signs being replaced with cloth curtains, instead of the other way around.......

"NYO"

Based on some of the routes, these replacement cloth curtains were drawn up in early 1964.


W.B.:

I would guess that new subway cars of the 1959/1960-era (R-26/R-28, R-27/30) also were delivered with mylar curtains)

It also never ceased to amaze me as to how LONG those curtains were, in most cases; I have a photo in one of my old British transit books showing a depot inspector checking out a rear sign box indicator roller curtain on a new London Transport ROUTEMASTER, circa-early 1960's.

From what he was holding onto, that roller curtain was clearly (at least) 15 feet long! Shocked

Back in the early/mid-80's, I clearly remember many older cloth signs on the subway cars being torn, as well as being snagged around the gears.

NOT conducive at all for displaying proper route/destination readings! Rolling Eyes

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"(roller) Signs Of The Past"........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1088

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show/2893

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2899

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2884

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3231

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 972
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
I would guess that new subway cars of the 1959/1960-era (R-26/R-28, R-27/30) also were delivered with mylar curtains)

No actually, the first subway cars delivered with mylar roll signs (from Transign, natch') were the R-32's and R-32A's. As late as the R-33ML/33S-WF/36ML/36WF order, cloth signs made by Hunter Illuminated Sign were still part of new subway car orders. So were the R-26/28's and R-27/30's.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
I would guess that new subway cars of the 1959/1960-era (R-26/R-28, R-27/30) also were delivered with mylar curtains)

No actually, the first subway cars delivered with mylar roll signs (from Transign, natch') were the R-32's and R-32A's. As late as the R-33ML/33S-WF/36ML/36WF order, cloth signs made by Hunter Illuminated Sign were still part of new subway car orders. So were the R-26/28's and R-27/30's.


W.B.:

So, I see that the "Brightliners" were the first subway cars to have mylar signs (I have a very short section of mylar roller sign still attatched to the roller, from an R-32)

I also remember the green florescent tubes that lit up a portion of the (subway) signs, which, if I remember correctly, illuminated the destination on the side sign boxes.........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA Fishbowl #4892 rumbles by the now-redundant, soon-to-be-removed pillars that, until recently, had supported the Bronx section of the 3rd Avenue El, while holding down a Bx55 run (1974).........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1008

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13176
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amsterdam Ave. & St. Nicholas, 1983.

It would seem here that #8495 was not "fully attired for work" when this photo was snapped........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2889

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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