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Now that the RTS is history.....what might be the new "
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Kingsbridge Depot, 1997.

This photo is now 22 years old, but...I don't know...I just don't see a future "classic" here (at least that's my opinion)........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3456

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

*I must admit, though, as boxy as this bus was, it, at least, was far more preferable to seeing a city bus masquerading as a giant, mutated insect......(!!)

True, but . . . you do have to admit, it does look like an oversized milk carton, dunnit? Yesterday's schoolchildren who made scale models of buses from milk cartons, became today's bus designers working in accordance with Federal mandates. Rolling Eyes


W.B.:

You hit that one right on the head! Very Happy

NJT's NABI's also qualify as "oversized milk cartons" (the bland, mostly white NJT scheme truly emphasizes this look)

Funny, even though the old GRUMMAN/FLEX METRO was a "boxy" vehicle, eventually, I was able to "warm" to them, and today, do regard them as a "late-era" classic.

Technically speaking, the (GM) New Look was also a "boxy" bus (as compared to, say, an Old Look or a MACK), but its design was so ingenious, and obviously planned to be both attractive AND functional, the result was anything BUT bland, boxy, and/or boring.

As I've said elsewhere, if you look at a FLXIBLE New Look and compare it to a GM model, you can see that the FLEX has a more "boxy" ("beefier") look to it, than did the GM New Look......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22286
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Recalling the days when scenes such as these were simply everyday sights on the streets of New York.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1733

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1739

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

Buses with superscript 'th's or 'st's depending on what number was used, on their front roll signs, were definitely made by Transign in 1964 when contract MB-15-OA was being fulfilled by GM. Later front signs with that layout only said '1 Ave' or '12 Ave'. 54th Street (where the 16 - both this one, and the ex-FACCo Elmhurst Crosstown - was assigned at the time) evidently kept all their '64-65 GM's rear windows as 3-piece, unlike some depots where they were retroactively converted to 4-piece. 'Twas also from this order that the side signs had crosstown routes described as, like shown in one of these pics, '16 34 St Xtown'.


W.B.:

As always, I find this roll-sign information more than interesting; again, there are many enthusiasts who took the old roller curtains pretty much at "face value"; I know I once did.

Today, thanks to the tremendous wealth of information that you and MaBSTOA 15 have so generously shared here, I've come to see the old signs in a totally different light, which I have found to be most intriguing.

Too bad most of these now-vintage signs were destroyed along with the buses that used them.....no wonder what remains is so highly-prized and valuable today.......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classic curves, contours, and comparisons, through the decades.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1319

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1328

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/shoW?1394

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1395

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2250

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2257

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A TRIBORO White 798.

Though the WHITE was a bus of an "angular" design, it still managed to have an appearance that was both functional and handsome.

The same, sadly, could not be said for many modern-day buses that more resemble oversized milk cartons......... Rolling Eyes

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1324

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contrasts in overall styling are certainly apparent here, between GMC and Flex New Looks, and RTS's........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?669

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?670

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2799

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evolution in transit bus designs.......indeed, you've come a LONG, LONG way, baby.......Wink

It DOES take quite awhile for a true "classic" to evolve into its final form.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?97

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3763
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traildriver




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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love that ACF!

Say...do you think "conventional" (engine in front) coaches will ever make a comeback?

After all, in class 8 highway trucks in the US, that's all you can buy now...the tilt-cab over engine design has gone bye-bye...engine in front is much safer for the driver... Very Happy
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Love that ACF!

Say...do you think "conventional" (engine in front) coaches will ever make a comeback?

After all, in class 8 highway trucks in the US, that's all you can buy now...the tilt-cab over engine design has gone bye-bye...engine in front is much safer for the driver... Very Happy


traildriver:

Interesting concept!

I believe that the last front-engine buses that GREYHOUND purchased were the YELLOW "Z" ("streamliners"; GREYHOUND also operated many front-engined MACKS as well, back in the day.

When the YELLOW 719/743's began entering GREYHOUND service in the mid-30's, it was clear that the era of "puller" buses was drawing to a close (hey, remember those CLASSIC "puller" GREYHOUND scenes in 1934's "IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT"?") Wink

GREYHOUND rostered a good number of MACK "BK" models.

It is also interesting to remember that most school buses these days are STILL front-engined jobs, even though there are tons of "flat-front" school buses in service (BlUEBIRD and THOMAS come to mind, here, and, of course, the old, classic CROWN buses, which, most certainly looked more like 1950's-era intercity buses than school buses!) Shocked

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Enjoy these "puller" photos (TRIBORO and *FACCo!) Wink

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1330

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3385

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

*one does not normally think of a SINGLE-deck FACCO. bus during the 20's! Shocked

(these single-deck buses were used on the newly-established Queens lines [#'s 15 and 16] )

Too, recall, early in FACCO's motor bus era, they also operated single-deck DE DION's, which were later rebuilt into double-deckers.........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver/all:

Overseas, front-engined "over the road" buses were still commonplace through the 1950's and 1960's; many such buses, in certain locales, ran for many years afterwards in regular service.

In Great Britain, "pullers" (single deck) were still commonplace sights into the 1950's, in both suburban and "for hire" (charter) workings.

Recall, also, that all London double-deckers were front-engined through to and including the now-legendary ROUTEMASTER; rear-engined London double-deckers did not become commonplace until the 1960's and 1970's.

The "ATLANTEAN" was one of the original rear-engined double-deckers......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Among GREYHOUND's last new "pullers", were the YELLOW Type 250's and the WHITE 54A's; both types had a more streamlined look than the earlier buses in the fleet.

The 250's also boasted dual engines, which could operate together or independent of each other.

The ACF Model H-9-P's, though presenting a modern, "flat-nosed" appearance, were still, nonetheless "pullers".

The first inkling of a truly modern, rear-engine coach was the experimental "X-1", which entered service between Chicago and Detroit in 1935.

This sleek, modern bus became the basis for the Model 719, and the later 743.

The "X-1" looked much like the 719/743, with the exception of the front end; the large windshields were similar to those that used on the later AEROCOACHES.

There was also the Model 745, which was based on the 719 and the 743; the front of this bus had the appearance of a "beetle-browed" 743.

Interestingly, this type was designed with overnight sleeper service in mind; GREYHOUND produced only one of these buses, which intended to seat thirty and sleep twenty.

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some transit operators began taking delivery of modern "flat nose" buses early on, even when front-engined buses were still being manufactured.

The TWIN COACH Model 40 was one of the very earliest transit buses to do away with the traditonal "engine up front"; the very first of these buses entered service with CHICAGO SURFACE LINES in 1927 (CSL also operated Model 40 trolley buses)

JAMAICA BUSES purchased 29 Model 40's in 1933; at that time, though new front-engined buses were still being built, the die was already cast and "puller buses" were already becoming quite old-fashioned in appearance......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAMAICA BUSES #201, a Model 40 TWIN COACH........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?667

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO--
I don't know about the ACF H-9-P model you referenced above, but the ACF-Brill coaches I am familiar with, the IC-41, had a mid-ship Hall-Scott "pancake" engine under the floor.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
NYO--
I don't know about the ACF H-9-P model you referenced above, but the ACF-Brill coaches I am familiar with, the IC-41, had a mid-ship Hall-Scott "pancake" engine under the floor.


traildriver:

ACF's H-9-P was was part of ACF's "H" series coaches (there was also the "H-9" and the "H-15" (P/S models)

ACF built a number of the smaller H-15-S buses for city services, but only 25 for intercity use; SOUTHEASTERN GREYHOUND LINES purchased three H-15-P coaches in 1937.

CAMPUS COACH LINES (NY) got its start with H-9-P's purchased between 1938 and 1939.

Many other bus companies (and there were a number) also operated the ACF's "H" series buses; the AT&SF operated two 15's, purchased in late 1936.

These buses were unique in that they had front entrance/exit doors on both sides for passengers' convenience at trainside.

The railroad also operated two Model H-9-6's...........

"NYO"

*ACF buses were very popular with TRAILWAYS and its affiliates for many years, beginning in the 1930's and lasting until the last ACF-BRILL buses were manufactured.

TRAILWAYS also operated a number of FLXIBLE coaches, as well as buses from AEROCOACH, YELLOW, and BECK.

The sleek IC-41 you noted earlier were very popular with a large number of operators across the country for many years; GREYHOUND operated a number, as did TRAILWAYS.

SOUTHEASTERN GREYHOUND's fleet was almost entirely made up of ACF and ACF-BRILL buses from 1937 through 1952........
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