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St. George bus platforms, etc.......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....also, in the interior photo from 1969, showing officials inspecting the interior of a new Fishbowl, I'm guessing that this bus order was replacing the last of the MACKS?

How many buses from this order went to Staten Island (and elsewhere?)

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
.....also, in the interior photo from 1969, showing officials inspecting the interior of a new Fishbowl, I'm guessing that this bus order was replacing the last of the MACKS?

How many buses from this order went to Staten Island (and elsewhere?)

"NYO"

From what I could tell, that was from within the 'Tee-Yay' order of A/C Dangerfields 4000-4202. It is possible that, at the outset, a few trod the streets of Staten Island, but the majority of the order went, naturally, to Brooklyn. Remember, another 1969-70 photo had #4036 running on the #112.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Thanks for the info.

In later years, I would guess that it was the RTS that was replacing the remaining Fishbowls and "Dangerfields" on Staten Island; also, when did ORIONS start operating on routes out of St. George?

I have a (judging by the autos in the view) a circa-1963 postcard showing a panoramic view of the St. George ferry terminal (long lines of classic 1950's/early 1960's autos are seen waiting to board the SI and 69th St. boats!)

Only Old Looks and MACKS are to be seen (and quite a few of them, at that!) Wink

For most of the 1960's, I only recall Old Looks and MACKS on Staten Island.........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also wondered about, back in the day, "Tee-Yay" bus assignments to Staten Island.

Given that the Borough of Richmond, like the "Dangerfields" themselves, seldom seem to receive any respect, it would not be a surprise to me that the SI bus routes were "making do" with cast-offs from other boroughs.

I say this because, once, along ago, I had read where someone had stated: "Staten Island is where all the old buses come to die"...........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be interesting, too, to learn what Staten Island garage and routes first received Fishbowls and "Dangerfields".

I believe the last MACKS disappeared from SI about 1969/1970, and the last Old Looks a year or two later.....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In James Greller's book on New York city buses and trolley coaches (1946-1958), there are a number of Staten Island photos.

One bus was a MACK C-45D demo (#1), which was painted in San Antonia (Texas) colors, but was being tested in Staten Island, shown operating on the "R/107".

There is also a photo of this bus taken at St. George (when the new ferry terminal was still being constructed), in the company of an interesting hodgepodge of assorted prewar buses.

Note is also made of the 9000-series Old Looks (TDH-5106) being transferred to Staten Island during the 1960's.........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"TWILIGHT" (Staten Island, 1972).......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154940

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
I had read where someone had stated: "Staten Island is where all the old buses come to die"...........

Viz the 'Tee-Yay'; with MaBSTOA, that dubious distinction usually fell onto 'da Bronx'. Exhibit A: the 1960 FACL and ST Fishbowls.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
I had read where someone had stated: "Staten Island is where all the old buses come to die"...........

Viz the 'Tee-Yay'; with MaBSTOA, that dubious distinction usually fell onto 'da Bronx'. Exhibit A: the 1960 FACL and ST Fishbowls.


W.B,:

In a strong sense, both "Da Bronx" and Staten Island were like "brother boroughs"; neither borough seemed to get much respect from the City. Sad

Speaking of "Da Bronx", I'm always amazed that the 3rd Ave El in "Da Bronx" lasted nearly 20 years longer than its Manhattan section.

IMHO, I cannot see how the MaBSTOA buses could have truly successfully "subbed" for multiple-car El trains.

On Staten Island, recall how the B&O abandoned all SIRT passenger service on the North Shore (Arlington) and South Beach branches in 1953.

(riderdership, I've read, had been quite low on these two branches)

Recall, also, that the ridership on the Arlington and South Beach SIRT lines was so low that most trains were single car.

Interestingly, the main line to Tottenville was saved by BoT President Bingham, who agreed to consider a PSC proposal to have Staten Island buses serve as feeders to the Tottenville line.

For many, many years (and I remember this well growing up) off-peak Tottenville trains were only two cars in length, and multiple-car trains were used only during the rush hours.....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In our many interesting discussions on roll signs, we seemed to have overlooked these "biggies" that once announced train destinations* at the St. George SIRT/ferry terminal.

Wish at least one of these old relics had been preserved.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?22045

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

Interesting to recall that the old SIRT ME-1's, while in SIRT service never carried roller curtains (or, for that matter, destination signs of any sort, outside of small metal signs that once hung from the safety chains on the first car of a train (I've only seen one picture of an ME-1 displaying a "SOUTH BEACH" sign up front)

However, the ex-SIRT cars purchased for BMT service, were equipped with metal plate destination signs, rescued from scrapped BMT elevated equipment....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture of an ex-SIRT ME-1 operating on the BMT Culver line (note metal destination plates in side windows).......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?112795

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's two nostalgic mid-1950's photos showing ex-SIRT ME-1 cars at the BMT's 39th St. yard, surrounded by a seemingly-endless sea of Old Looks....... Wink

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6761

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75772

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While on the subject of rapid transit roller signs.....

Recall, the BRT/BMT "Standards" were the first subway cars in New York to be equipped with (side only) roller curtains.

It would not be until the "D"-type Triplex units arrived in 1925 that subway cars with end sign boxes would appear.

(Recall, the first IRT cars to have any sort of end roller signs were the 1938 WF cars)

Interestingly, during the World's Fair seasons of 1939 and 1940, some "Standards" were fitted with metal signs that were mounted over the end train doors, illuminated by bulbs.

These signs simply read:

"WORLD'S FAIR TRAIN CONNECTION"

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a rare photo of a BMT "Standard" equipped with an illuminated end sign* for the BMT's train connection service to the 1939/1940 World's Fair......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?132267

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*Given the fact that an end sign such as seen here was quite inexpensive, I've always wondered why the "Tee-Yay" didn't rig up similar signs for the ex-SIRT cars, when they were refurbished for BMT service.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

....how ironic, that, while the SIRT ME-1 cars where never equipped with roller curtains, at St. George terminal, in later years, roll sign boxes were installed at the entrance to each platform (I can remember railroad style chalk boars being used in earlier days)

Though the SIRT cars were equipped with marker lights (like the "Standards", I've never read anything about what colors were used (to denote routes/local/express)

Then again, with only three passenger lines then in operation (Arlington, South Beach, Tottenville) it would seem that, for the most part, markers were not really needed, except, perhaps, by tower operators.......

"NYO"
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