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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2484 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | GojiMet86 wrote: | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: |
W.B.:
The following is from Stan Fischler's excellent :THE SUBWAY" (a much more in-depth, second-edition of "UPTOWN,DOWNTOWN"......
".....the tiny, musty-smelling tunnels have given the Hudson Tubes a surreal look ever since the line linking New York and New Jersey opened in 1908.....
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["HUDSON RAPID TUBES: SWIFT! SAFE! SURE!" |
So I am not imagining things in regards to the smell.
Actually, I've smelled the PATH smell on the NYC subway before, and that's been at High Street on the A/C lines.
I wonder if it has to do with the construction methods. |
I have read, over the years, that the distinctive aroma of the "Tubes" was/is largely due to the tunnels burrowing through the bed of the Hudson.
In fact, in Brian J. Cudhay's "RAILS UNDER THE MIGHTY HUDSON", the author also mentions what he described as the "characteristic smell" of the H&M.
I was particularly aware of this distinctive, musty aroma (which I've loved since my childhood days) at Hoboken, Pavonia ("Newport" today), Grove St., Exchange Place, and 33rd St. (and, of course, Hudson Terminal, which closed in 1971)
You are correct about High Street; back in the days when * was still railfanning the subways, I often thought that the aroma* at High St. was quite reminiscent of that of the PATH tubes......
"NYO"
*Oddly enough, when the "MERRELL"-class steam ferries were still in operation, I used to think that the aroma of these boats reminded me of the old SIRT ME-1's....even I cannot fathom that one out! |
The IND tubes also had rings a la the H&M - only they were concreted over to smooth them out. And with more generous dimensions in diameter and all else compared with even the BMT cross-river tunnels (which likewise had concrete on the sides to conceal the rings). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | To get back to the issue of Staten Island and the buses - when express bus service was first instituted by the 'Tee-Yay' in 1965, the 1963 Fishbowls (I saw a pic of one in the upper 3800's) were selected to transport SI'ers to and from their destinations. That would certainly count as an early example of Fishbowls beginning to make their footprint on that "forgotten borough." Evidently the Macks weren't elegant enough? |
W.B.:
Well, if the "Tee-Yay" was going to initiate premium express service from Staten Island, rest assured that they were going to use their newest buses (well, that let the MACKS out!)
As I had said earlier, for a good chunk of the 1960's, I can remember seeing only Old Looks and MACKS at St. George; in fact, I have a postcard (circa-1963) that Mom bought me in the Whitehall St. terminal; this postcard features a wonderful overhead view of the terminal (LOOOOOONG line of cars waiting for the 69th St. boats!) with nothing but Old Looks and MACKS in view.
With no less than fifteen buses on hand, the picture was obviously taken during a rush hour!
Ahhh, memories......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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From "WELCOME ABOARD THE GM NEW LOOK BUS" (McKane/Squiers).....
"......GM developed what was initially called the "Super V" transmission. It was a new, dual-range automatic transmission for heavy local and high-speed express service......"
".......with this new transmission, buses could run easily at top freeway speeds, providing faster express service......"
I'm wondering if any of the "Tee-Yay" Fishbowls assigned to Staten Island express runs were so equipped......
"NYO"
["New York city Transit Authority"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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From:"NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES" (Martin), regarding MACKS on Staten Island:
"........air-suspension C-49-DT MACKS, numbered 6210-6317, began service on Staten Island in 1959, replacing remaining MACK C-45-GT's, and freeing the TDH5101's for service elsewhere in the City....."
".......this made Staten Island diesel MACK territory, until the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge opened in late 1964, and the first GM New Look buses arrived to address the increase in patronage....."
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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....it is also important to recall, that, by the time the last "Tee-Yay" MACKS ran in Staten Island, MACKS were now virtually extinct in the greater NY/NJ area (AVENUE B & E. BROADWAY being a notable exception)
The last MACKS in my general area (Hudson County) disappeared about 1967/1968; prior to this, they were quite commonplace.
IMHO, I cannot see the "Tee-Yay" using some of its oldest buses on newly-established Staten Island express runs.
Interestingly, when the IND Fulton line was finally extended to the new, modern Euclid Avenue station, just after WW2 (also, the first station with florescent lighting) grimy-looking, prewar IND cars were the first to use the sparkling new facility.......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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QUITE a contrast between old rolling stock and modern station design (Euclid Avenue).......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?58053
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["INDEPENDENT SUBWAY SYSTEM"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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In "NEW YORK TRANSIT MEMORIES" there is a 1967 photo of MACK #6002 on the "R-112" traveling along New Dorp Lane.
The caption reads:
".......the 6000-series Mack buses began their service life in Brooklyn, and finished out their days on Staten Island......"
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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From: "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES" (Guy E. Martin)......
".......another huge order, unique to New York, was 400 TDH-5101's (4500-4899). Queens and Staten Island needed faster loading/unloading and greater seating capacity for the long subway (and ferry) feeders......."
"...........new arrivals in the high 4600 and low 4700-series were then assigned to Staten Island as supplements to the older MACK C-45 GT's, and replacements for most of the remaining Staten Island buses left over from the City takeover......"
"NYO" |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2484 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | In "NEW YORK TRANSIT MEMORIES" there is a 1967 photo of MACK #6002 on the "R-112" traveling along New Dorp Lane.
The caption reads:
".......the 6000-series Mack buses began their service life in Brooklyn, and finished out their days on Staten Island......"
"NYO" |
While in 1967, the ex-Surface Transportation/Surface Transit Macks of 1954-58 - all renumbered in the 4900's and all concentrated in Manhattan where they ran such routes as M-100 and M-104 - were retired upon the arrival of the A/C batwing Fishbowls. Amazing that Avenue B & East Broadway's Macks outlived both sets. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:11 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Speaking of long lived "AVENUE B" MACKS, check out this timeless scene from '72, showing "Tee-Yay" green first-generation Fishbowl #51 (on the #15) passing a Yonkers Raceway-bound AVENUE B MACK.......ahhh, to go back, if only for a day.....
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153355
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["15 TO 126 ST"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2484 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
Speaking of long lived "AVENUE B" MACKS, check out this timeless scene from '72, showing "Tee-Yay" green first-generation Fishbowl #51 (on the #15) passing a Yonkers Raceway-bound AVENUE B MACK.......ahhh, to go back, if only for a day.....
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153355
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["15 TO 126 ST"] |
'Tee-Yay' #51 had the green-numbered serif font to spell out that number, that used to be ubiquitous on FACCo / NYCO livery. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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......it would have been interesting, to say the least, had Staten Islands received some of the "Tee-Yay's" new Fishbowls in 1959; recall, Brooklyn saw there first Fishbowls in 1960, when the "Tee-Yay" was pulling the plug on the remaining trlley bus operations.
With few notable exceptions, the boats in the Staten Island Ferry fleet lasted in service an average of 30-35 years.
The now-retired "KENNEDY", from 1965, now holds to the "house record" for fleet longevity, remaining in service for over 50 years, the last of her class.
The old SIRT ME-1's lasted nearly 50 years in service; the venerable R-44's are also nearing a half-century of service on the SIRT.
Sadly, with the passing of the now-iconic RTS, there are no longer any "classic" buses in service on Staten Island, or, for that matter, anywhere else in the city.
The last time I rode on a Staten Island bus was back in 1985, on a "Dangerfield", heading back to the St. George terminal, after exploring abandoned sections of former SIRT right-of-way.....
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23006 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Interesting to note that, in 1948, MACK demo (a C-45D) was the first bus to carry the number "1"
Even more interesting was that this bus was painted for San Antonio; this made for an interesting sight, for certain, as it operated on the streets of Staten Island!
The second Demo #1 was SURFACE #5300; this bus was different than the first MACK demo, and also operated on Staten Island for a time.
Also from:"NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM BUS & TROLLEY COACH FLEET" (Greller):
".......the MACKS for years took the Borough of Richmond's residents to work and back to home again. For a long time, Staten Island hummed to the sounds of MACK engines climbing the hills of that borough....."
Back in the days of when the CASTLETON garage reigned supreme on Staten Island, 186 buses were based out of this facility (according to the Greller book, 18 routes once operated out of this garage)
There was, also, the short-lived "ISLE TRANSPORTATION", which also took over "STATEN ISLAND COACH"........
"NYO"
["BoT"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2484 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | In "NEW YORK TRANSIT MEMORIES" there is a 1967 photo of MACK #6002 on the "R-112" traveling along New Dorp Lane.
The caption reads:
".......the 6000-series Mack buses began their service life in Brooklyn, and finished out their days on Staten Island......"
"NYO" |
Yet I haven't heard of any of the 6000's plying Manhattan's streets . . . GM Old Look 7000's for sure, but . . . |
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