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What price nostalgia? (nostalgia holiday trains)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:10 pm    Post subject: What price nostalgia? (nostalgia holiday trains) Reply with quote

Your's Truly has been following the (online) accounts of those enthusiasts who rode aboard the train of IND "Arnines" this past weekend in "Holiday Train" running; it appeared that "railfans"-acting like unruly kids-ran unchecked through the cars-rider chatter was quite loud-and-I also read-that sign boxes in certain cars appeared to be jiggled with (perhaps to steal roller curtains); except for "run-bys" recording the sounds of these electrical prewar beasts was basically a no-go-due to the boisterous nature of certain riders----------personally-I think that the "Tee-Yay" should stop the running of historic subway trains at the holidays-------the unruly riffraff that-sadly-appear to be here to stay-pocess no respect for the current subway fleet-------they certainly are not going to show any to the historic rolling stock--------------the great ERA and NRHS fan trips of the past are-today- long long gone Crying or Very sad We now reside in a totally different society than that of the ERA and NRHS era; look at how long it has been since the last historic buses ran during the holidays-------so far as the historic trains---------I greatly prefer to recall the long-ago days when they were still running (and I was a good deal younger!) Wink ------------Sadly-I think that the "pulling of the plug" on the Holiday Trains is now-----it's certainly not the world it once was-----when these historic trains were still in daily operation---------just this fellow's 2 1/2 cents worth---------"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: What price nostalgia? (nostalgia holiday trains) Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Your's Truly has been following the (online) accounts of those enthusiasts who rode aboard the train of IND "Arnines" this past weekend in "Holiday Train" running; it appeared that "railfans"-acting like unruly kids-ran unchecked through the cars-rider chatter was quite loud-and-I also read-that sign boxes in certain cars appeared to be jiggled with (perhaps to steal roller curtains); except for "run-bys" recording the sounds of these electrical prewar beasts was basically a no-go-due to the boisterous nature of certain riders----------personally-I think that the "Tee-Yay" should stop the running of historic subway trains at the holidays-------the unruly riffraff that-sadly-appear to be here to stay-pocess no respect for the current subway fleet-------they certainly are not going to show any to the historic rolling stock--------------the great ERA and NRHS fan trips of the past are-today- long long gone Crying or Very sad We now reside in a totally different society than that of the ERA and NRHS era; look at how long it has been since the last historic buses ran during the holidays-------so far as the historic trains---------I greatly prefer to recall the long-ago days when they were still running (and I was a good deal younger!) Wink ------------Sadly-I think that the "pulling of the plug" on the Holiday Trains is now-----it's certainly not the world it once was-----when these historic trains were still in daily operation---------just this fellow's 2 1/2 cents worth---------"NYO"

This must've been either at a different time from when I was on, or within the center cars or other end, as I was on the front on each run and saw none of that. But it wouldn't be a surprise if this were to be the case . . . I was on the noon trip out of Second Avenue, and the 1 P.M. out of 145th, a round trip, on the 2d. I have plans to go again on the 30th at the same bat-time, same bat-channel . . . I did, however, see the stirrings of what you brought up on the 2019 run. I was rolling my eyes in disgust, as my "railfanning" has always been quiet and keeping-to-myself . . . things like what you've said are exactly why I never travel in groups, as it is with groups that such undesirable behaviors are the worst. But you also have to wonder if the "Em-Tee-Yay" knew something the rest of us didn't when they ended the holiday rides on the vintage buses. I spoke with someone yesterday who worried that any of the nine "Arnines" assembled for this set of holiday runs would be defaced by graffiti by any of those "yute."
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. One old-timer who lives in Boston but grew up going to high school in "Noo Yawk" told me he vastly preferred the Standards over the Triplexes - and hated any and all buses of any types, much preferring the streetcars. Wonder if it was because of attitudes like his that there hasn't been as much a preservation-minded attitude towards old buses as there've been with subway cars.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WB: glad that you did enjoy a "sane" trip on those historic "Arnines" (I last rode these stolid old relics when they were still running on the rush-hour "CC"-nearly 50 years ago)---------Your's Truly rode a few "Nostalgia Specials" 40-odd years ago ("Standards" and "D"-Types)-----those fabled ERA/NRHS fan trips of yore carried railfans who were were not prone to acting like hooligans; sanity indeed ruled-back in the day-----------Your's Truly HAD been thinking of issues that then could lead to the end of the historic buses running for the holidays (whose in control here anyway?) Sad --------the old historic cars incorporate furnishings and hardware that easily can fall prey to highly-disturbed "characters" who are-sadly-prone to showing no respect to the property of others----------- Sad "NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
P.S. One old-timer who lives in Boston but grew up going to high school in "Noo Yawk" told me he vastly preferred the Standards over the Triplexes - and hated any and all buses of any types, much preferring the streetcars. Wonder if it was because of attitudes like his that there hasn't been as much a preservation-minded attitude towards old buses as there've been with subway cars.
--------WB: Look at all of the rare and historic buses purchased by historic electric rail organizations-----only to sit outside in all kinds of weather for decades-until they are nothing but rusted gutted hulks-QUITE telling-I would say-----------ALL of the old historic rolling stock are quite dear to this graying writer; prewar and postwar-they all fascinate and intrigue Your's Truly to this day-and always will---------In the past-I read of "early" bus fans who were indeed ostrasized by die-hard "traction" fans for showing interest in the new diesel coaches Sad ----As for this old gray fellow-----if it carried people-----------and is today considered "historic"-be it on rubber tires or steel wheels--------they indeed will always be greatly cherished and celebrated Very Happy "NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

---------now wondering if budget cuts in the city could be just the excuse needed to "pull the plug" on operating the historic subway cars during the holidays-----especially when one takes into consideration what goes on-during these runs; I certainly do not want to know what heights Your's Truly's blood pressure would hit-if he heard of one of the historic holiday trains being seriously "trashed"----------perhaps it is just as well that the old "holiday buses" no longer operate (I just wish they could all be exhibited together as static displays-in a place befitting their dignity and historic significance)-----------"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
WB: glad that you did enjoy a "sane" trip on those historic "Arnines" (I last rode these stolid old relics when they were still running on the rush-hour "CC"-nearly 50 years ago)---------Your's Truly rode a few "Nostalgia Specials" 40-odd years ago ("Standards" and "D"-Types)-----those fabled ERA/NRHS fan trips of yore carried railfans who were were not prone to acting like hooligans; sanity indeed ruled-back in the day-----------Your's Truly HAD been thinking of issues that then could lead to the end of the historic buses running for the holidays (whose in control here anyway?) Sad --------the old historic cars incorporate furnishings and hardware that easily can fall prey to highly-disturbed "characters" who are-sadly-prone to showing no respect to the property of others----------- Sad "NYO"


I haven't read of any of the recent operations, but as far as "houligans"...
I rode the last run of the Myrtle Avenue Local from Bridge-Jay in 1969, and witnessed "railfans" literally yanking down the old leather standee straps as souvenirs. There were even TA cops aboard, and they just shook their heads and rolled their eyes at the unbelievable behavior, but they did not arrest the offenders.

Perhaps they thought they were doing the TA a favor, in beginning the scrapping of the Q Cars/ Rolling Eyes
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being that the clattering old "Q's" were wooden-and heading for the scrap heap anyway-I guess the "Tee-Yay" cops really didn't care a whit who stole what Sad Recall-also-by the late 1960's and early 70's-how the "Tee-Yay" was replacing the leather and rattan cushions in the older subway cars due to "hooligans" (trying to be polite-here!)---------into the 1960's new New York buses no longer had upholstered seating------I wonder why? Sad Your's Truly has not set foot in New York since the last day I worked on "The Street" (2003); despite the fact that I had always been enchanted with the city since childhood-I felt a strong distinct change after 9/11 that I did not like Sad ---------Unruly idiots ruin "holiday train riding"for all; and-of course-it is not fair to all the good folk-who wish to recall the good old days--------------------as I had said earlier-I prefer to recall these wonderful old trains as they were when they (and I) were still 'riding the rails"-----------a LOT of FUN while it all lasted! Very Happy "NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
WB: glad that you did enjoy a "sane" trip on those historic "Arnines" (I last rode these stolid old relics when they were still running on the rush-hour "CC"-nearly 50 years ago)---------

Funny, I too rode these old standbys in regular service on the CC, in 1975. That route was the very last on the "Eye-En-Dee" to run them, given how they played out their last years on the "Bee-Em-Tee's" Eastern division (where the oddball R-7A #1575 was intermixed amongst the other lot).
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Being that the clattering old "Q's" were wooden-and heading for the scrap heap anyway-I guess the "Tee-Yay" cops really didn't care a whit who stole what Sad Recall-also-by the late 1960's and early 70's-how the "Tee-Yay" was replacing the leather and rattan cushions in the older subway cars due to "hooligans" (trying to be polite-here!)---------into the 1960's new New York buses no longer had upholstered seating------I wonder why? Sad Your's Truly has not set foot in New York since the last day I worked on "The Street" (2003); despite the fact that I had always been enchanted with the city since childhood-I felt a strong distinct change after 9/11 that I did not like Sad ---------Unruly idiots ruin "holiday train riding"for all; and-of course-it is not fair to all the good folk-who wish to recall the good old days--------------------as I had said earlier-I prefer to recall these wonderful old trains as they were when they (and I) were still 'riding the rails"-----------a LOT of FUN while it all lasted! Very Happy "NYO"

Apparently the last buses in the city to have upholstered seating (unless Avenue B & East Broadway still had 'em for years afterward) were the FACL and ST "Jetson" Fishbowls of 1960. By contrast, the "Tee-Yay" with their lot specified hard molded fiberglass seating (had since the 7000-series "Shermans" in 1957 - or was it their 1958 9000's?). Which apparently would later be applied to those FACL/ST buses after " 'stoa" was settled in from its first years in operation.
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
---------now wondering if budget cuts in the city could be just the excuse needed to "pull the plug" on operating the historic subway cars during the holidays-----especially when one takes into consideration what goes on-during these runs; I certainly do not want to know what heights Your's Truly's blood pressure would hit-if he heard of one of the historic holiday trains being seriously "trashed"----------perhaps it is just as well that the old "holiday buses" no longer operate (I just wish they could all be exhibited together as static displays-in a place befitting their dignity and historic significance)-----------"NYO"

Or will they change tack on their "Holiday Trains" and run "Trains of Many Metals" of the postwar "SMEE" fleet from the "Bee-Em-Tee" / "Eye-En-Dee" side instead of the "Arnines"? (A good number of which were compromised in appearance by "GOH" - talk about vandalism and defacement.)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WB: Personally-----I wish a single train each of R-12/14s and 15s had been retained for "nostalgia train"/holiday work; ditto a train of WF "Bluebirds" repainted into their original paint------------also a set of "Are-Tens" (aka "Thunderbirds)------looks like the prewar "Eye-Are-Tee" cars only run as baseball specials; picture-if you will now -a set of R-11's (if such a set still existed) or a train of 1938 WF cars (look at all the 1938 WF cars were still in work trains throughout the 1970's--------and yet only one still is still with us------------if-say-one of the B&QT trolleybuses still was in existence (and still in Noo Yawk") technically-it COULD still be operated (poles down)----if it were towing a generator trailer-------unlike here in "Noo Yawk" the CSL/CTA regularly operated "L" trains with both steel and wooden rolling stock in the consist (picture a steel 4000 hauling a wooden trailer); as the "L" was not known for "betrothed" units-single car trains could be (and were) operated as shuttle cars during off-hours-as well as on certain less-patronized routes------"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
------------if-say-one of the B&QT trolleybuses still was in existence (and still in Noo Yawk") technically-it COULD still be operated (poles down)----if it were towing a generator trailer-----


Sort of like this operation, in Astoria, Oregon? Cool

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astoria_Riverfront_Trolley#/media/File:Astoria_Riverfront_Trolley_on_trestle_west_of_2nd_Street.jpg
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There ya go!!!!! Wink Here's another interesting thought: had TARS streetcars not been replaced by buses after WW2------and new PCC's entered the fleet------TARS would then been only one of two streetcar operators in this country using PCC's on conduit trackage (recall DC TRANSIT operated conduit streetcars until 1962) Wink "NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picture this in "Noo Yawk"-if you will: In Berlin the U-BAHN (in its historical collection) rosters one train to represent each type of cars used since the earliest days; Your's Truly has seen pictures of truly historic and interesting rolling stock (think of this scenario in "Noo Yawk"!) Shocked -----------In Paris there are trains of the historic "Sprague" cars (doors operated by passengers!); AFAIK there are no historic rapid transit trains up in Boston-although there are selected historic cars up at Seashore; On "See-Tee-Yay" property there is restored historic "L" rolling stock still on hand-including the iconic 4000s and 6000s; Shore Line also had a 4000 or two-if I recall correctly--------"NYO"
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