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Why do people seem to love orion so much?

 
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Gilligboi



Age: 34
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 9
Location: In your city, riding your buses

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Why do people seem to love orion so much? Reply with quote

I have never ridden one nor do I have the opportunity to. I hear so many people talk about them like they are the greatest bus ever. So why do people like Orions so much?
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RailBus63
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where you are seeing the Orion love - there are plenty of folks on various bus enthusiast boards who do not like these buses at all.

Personally, I appreciate almost all full-size North American transit buses. I wasn’t a fan of the Gillig Phantom or the Nova LFS at first, but both of these buses have grown on me over the years.
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timecruncher



Age: 73
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bus enthusiasts generally have different preferences than bus operations people on every bus. The hallowed GMC new look coach went to heck in its last years of production, especially the Canadian versions, as GM tried to install a V8 diesel, larger transmission and wheelchair lift into a bus that simply was not structurally designed for it. Nova struggled with the Classic version of the new look, somehow inherited the RTS, which, while nice-looking, was a maintenance nightmare from beginning to end.

And Flxible? Well, where are they now? 'Nuff said! Their Clipper model is a classic, and they were actually pretty good buses for the purpose they were designed. I drove new-look Flxibles, and they were never more than a cheap imitation of a new-look GM. I then drove Grumman/Flx 870s and Metros and I don't believe Flx ever built an Advance Design Bus that didn't leak from one end to the other on a rainy day!

Neoplan -- great bus from a driver standpoint, drove like a German sports car, but rusted like a Chevy Vega within months of delivery, and the company never did manage to get parts distribution into their business plan.

Orion during its troubled years in the 1980 - 2000 era made a lot of enemies in the US with shoddy workmanship, design problems and the miserable Orion 02 model.

This seems to have improved greatly with the Diamlier ownership of the company. I would like to have had a chance to drive the demo unit we had in Louisville last week, but apparently the sales reps were not in the mood to let anyone try it out!





Here she is, rubbing elbows with one of TARC's 2003 Gillig low floor coaches outside the Inspection Area.

timecruncher
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S-60 To Smith Haven Mall




Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1757
Location: Suffolk County, NY

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know over on Sub Chat and Straphangers.org (which i left because of to many differences) most people there seem to have a preference to Orion. Though some on Sub Chat have shown distaste for the Orion VII OG.

I liked Gilligs Phantom better then another bus model, because untill 1999 that was the only bus model i ever knew. Now i like a variety of bus models. Though i don't like the Orion V's, partly because the ones Suffolk Transit have some remind me of the old Fxible Metro D's they had, and i didn't like them all that much either.
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CityBusBoy




Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to chuckle a bit. I live in San Francisco where the buses don't rust, but they get abused far beyond what you'll see in most cities because of the high density, loads of hills, and 24x7 service.

Our Neoplans haven't rusted (to my knowledge), but had some pretty major teething problems (overheating was a biggie). Once the initial problems were worked out, it seems like they've worked pretty well for SEPTA too where things rust pretty well. They ride well, but not as well as the NABIs. The Neoplans make up the majority of the 40 foot fleet (and all of the 60ft diesel fleet) here.

Our Orions are trash, always have been, always will be from what I can tell. The old 30ft Orion Is were so bad that they were junked a bit early because the frames were cracked. Cracked frames! On lightly used community service routes FFS! The current crop of Orion VIIs are pretty well designed to reduce transit ridership. The ventilation is non-existent. It doesn't get that hot out here (usually, but triple digits aren't unheard of) but with a hundred people on board, it will heat up pretty quick and the tiny, hard to reach sliding windows don't do much to help. Granted, you probably could not get anywhere near a hundred people in these things... and just like the GGT Orion Vs they ride worse than pretty much everything else. Also unsure whose bright idea the CLASS doors were, but from what I can tell neither the drivers nor the customers (nee passengers) like them or know how to get them to work properly. At least with the weight sensing stuff on our trolleys you can generally demonstrate how to open the doors to a stranger.

I live a stone's throw from a route that gets serviced exclusively by hybrid Orion VIIs, and the turbo whine is... ugh.

In any case, nearby Golden Gate Transit gives a great way to compare lightly used fairly well maintained vehicles. Even they've been smart enough to steer clear of Orion for their last few orders. Their D60LFs ride amazingly, and aside from some awful engine noise at highway speed seem like rather nice coaches. Their New Flyer hybrids (DE40LF?) are lack that dentist drill sound.

Looking at the pictures of the new Orion 7s, I see that they've kept the useless windows, and ditched the cheap sealed beam headlights in favor of more costly units. Awesome.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBB,

Welcome to our club - looking forward to your contributions from up north.

I'm often in San Francisco being that it's only a quick shuttle flight from L.A. and I usually stay up on Lombard at the Cow Hollow which gives me a great shot at seeing the GGT RTS's and 4500's coming off the bridge in the AM rush.

I have to say that they have one really nice operation and their buses are kept in pristine condition.

Of course, there are so many different modes of transit that it makes my head spin but my favorites are the vintage trolley cars.

S.F. is a great town for transit - you're lucky.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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CityBusBoy




Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
I'm often in San Francisco being that it's only a quick shuttle flight from L.A. and I usually stay up on Lombard at the Cow Hollow which gives me a great shot at seeing the GGT RTS's and 4500's coming off the bridge in the AM rush.


Gosh, I remember when GGT still ran New Looks. They are now mostly a New Flyer shop it seems. Not nearly as stylish, but every bit as comfortable and functional. The 4500s are very posh with onboard WiFi and the usual padded seats.

Mr. Linsky wrote:
I have to say that they have one really nice operation and their buses are kept in pristine condition.


Yup. The GGT fleet is usually kept in pretty decent shape and is very well specced (ex: all of their coaches have air conditioning). It's one of the luxuries of carrying a fraction of the riders that MUNI or AC Transit do. As of last year MUNI carried about 750,000 people daily, AC Transit about 300,000, GGT less than 25,000 daily.

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Of course, there are so many different modes of transit that it makes my head spin but my favorites are the vintage trolley cars.


The F-Market & Wharves is great fun. It's a better value than the cable cars because you can use a normal MUNI fare (vs $5, no transfers on the cable cars)... and you still see some awesome equipment. My fav so far is the Zurich PCC.

But... despite the crowds there's been a decent push from the merchants along the F line to avoid bringing out any MU trains. Supposedly, using two car trains kinda ruins the character(!). Next time you're up, feel free to write or call the chamber of commerce suggesting that they bring out longer F-line trains.

Mr. Linsky wrote:
S.F. is a great town for transit - you're lucky.


It's an interesting town for spotting unique vehicles, for sure. MUNI was trying out a double decker for a while. That was quite a sight to see.
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