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Historical Buses of NYC: The GMD Classic

 
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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Historical Buses of NYC: The GMD Classic Reply with quote

There were many sweeping changes in the North American transit bus industry during the early 1980’s. In response to pressures imposed by the Federal government, many U.S. transit agencies began phasing out of the New Look coach design and started to acquire large fleets of new Advanced Design Buses (ADB’s). Although GMC and Flxible had suspended New Look transit bus production in the U.S. in 1976 and 1978 respectively, GM’s Canadian arm (GM Diesel Division, abbreviated GMD) continued to manufacture the time-honored Generation 4 Fishbowl until 1986. Several U.S. transit providers who were not eager to purchase costly, unproven ADB’s continued to purchase New Looks from GMD as long as they could do so. In NYC, many of the PBL’s (particularly NYBS and QSC) purchased GMD Fishbowls into the mid 1980’s. Although GMD certainly had a lucrative business turning out Fishbowls, the manufacturer was well aware that the venerable design dated back to 1959, and that some transit agencies were seeking a more contemporary looking non-ADB bus design. To service this market segment, in 1983 GMD introduced a new transit bus named The Classic. The name of the GMD’s new product was most appropriate. The design philosophy behind The Classic clearly embraced the old wedding adage, “Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.” The new bus had a truly composite design, blending some New Look features with numerous contemporary ADB styling elements. The power train was familiar: a transversely mounted Detroit Diesel 6V-71N or 6V-92TA engine drove an Allison V-730 hydraulic transmission in V-drive configuration. The basic dimensions were similarly conventional: 40-foot length, 102” width, 121” height, a 285” wheelbase and a 34,500 lb. GVW for an air conditioned unit (the non-A/C unit had 33,500 lb. GVW). 12.00-22.5 tires were mounted on 5-hole 10-stud painted cast steel disc wheels. Air ride suspension was used on front and rear beam axles. The styling was more contemporary and rectilinear. It is not unreasonable to suggest that The Classic looked as if a Fishbowl had been melted down and cast into a square pan. The curvaceous 6-piece front windshield from which the Fishbowl had gained its nickname was eliminated in favor of a similarly-sized 2-piece flat windshield, kept clean by twin Fishbowl-style air-operated pantograph-type wipers. Dual screened air vents, a carryover from the New Look, were installed above the windshield. Twin rectangular sealed beam headlamps flanked by a rectangular amber front turn signal lamp replaced the artfully curved front lighting fixtures used on the Fishbowl. Dual blacked-out side rear view mirrors were provided. An electrically-driven curtain-type destination sign was installed over the front windshield and, optionally, at the top of the first curbside passenger window. Options included 2 or 3 power-driven or crank operated front signs. A manually operated run number box was perched atop the right-hand dash panel. Four large tinted rectangular passenger side windows, looking as if they had been borrowed from the late AM General Metropolitan, replaced the old slant-line sliding sashes that GM first had introduced in 1953 on the PD-4104. These new horizontally-sliding sashes had optional top transom panels which could tip inward, and were set into blacked out trim. Tinted standee windows, another Fishbowl design element, also were eliminated. Corrugated siding (a GM styling flourish dating back to the 1939 Greyhound PGG-3701) was retained, but it now was painted (most often in solid white) instead of silver-toned. As with the RTS, fleets of Classics could be distinguished by application of colored tape stripes. In true ADB fashion, the rear window was completely eliminated in favor a large, blacked-out, louvered panel that covered the HVAC compartment. A combination escape hatch/ventilator was installed in the rear roof. The horizontally hinged one-piece tailgate carried new rectangular turn, tail and backup lamps; twin vertically-stacked 3-lamp groups were used (in amber over red over white formation). A vertical exhaust tailpipe was installed at the rear left rooftop corner. Twin amber “armored beehive” side directional signals were installed over front and rear wheelhousings. Any bus operator who had spent time behind the wheel of a Fishbowl definitely would have been very familiar with the control layout of The Classic. The front instrument panel appeared to be identical to that of a GM New Look, with a similar gauge arrangement: a large (4” diameter) air pressure gauge was installed at the far left side, and a similarly sized speedometer was provided at the far right side. Optional oil pressure, water temperature, voltmeter and fuel gauges, when specified, now were arranged in a horizontal row across the bottom edge of the front instrument panel (instead of being inserted between the air gauge and the speedometer; twin telltale strips now were installed horizontally in this location on The Classic). The left-hand switch panel of the Fishbowl was reconfigured on GMD’s Classic into 3 color-coded sections. From front to rear the sections were as follows: the front red panel held a rotary master knob, a starter button, engine stop overrule and emergency stop switches; the middle green panel held as many as 8 standard and toggle switches for secondary electrical circuits (i.e. hazard flasher, fast idle, chime, destination sign, etc.); the rear blue panel held HVAC controls. A ball-and-stick automatic transmission selector lever and parking brake controls were installed on a floor mounted tower at the operator’s left. Dual foot operated directional signal switches were floor mounted. Classics used mechanical operator’s seats as standard equipment; air ride seats were optional. The Classic also incorporated another RTS design feature: a “Stop Requested” sign, mounted on the front ceiling panel, illuminated whenever a passenger actuated the chime. Slide-glide 2-leaf front and 2-leaf push-type rear doors were standard equipment; both front and rear door panels featured larger, more rectangular windows than their Fishbowl predecessors. Some Canadian operators specified a double-width exit door (sometimes actuated by alighting passengers via an internal push-type dual gate called a “McKay Gate”). Seating plans generally used a 2x2 arrangement except over the wheelhousings and above the engine compartment. GMD used a specific new nomenclature system to describe The Classic: the first 2 letters (“TC”) signified “Transit Classic”, while the next 5 digits (40102) described coach length (in feet) and width (in inches). No 35-foot long or 96” wide Classics were offered. Suffixes “A” and “N” indicated presence or absence of air conditioning, as they had with previous Fishbowl model designations; many Canadian properties did not order A/C in deference to their mostly short summers. GMD produced 1,603 Classics from 1983 to 1987. While many were sold to Canadian transit operators, some U.S. bus fleets also had GMD Classics on their rosters. In NYC, the sole operator of GMD Classics was New York Bus Service: 3 red, white and blue single-door units (NYBS 1600-1602) were delivered in August 1984. Outfitted with suburban features (i.e. forward-facing 2x2 seats and overhead parcel racks) these buses were the forerunners of a large fleet of Classics that would be used in express services by the PBL’s until the New Millennium. NYBS 1600-1603 still were on the roster when their original owner was absorbed by MTA Bus in 2005. Renumbered MTAB 7311-7313, they survived until late 2005 when most Classics were withdrawn from service. Although The Classic was a sturdy bus based on the proven technology platform of the highly regarded Fishbowl, its 2-stroke Detroit Diesel engine was considered to be an air polluter, and the lack of a wheelchair lift did not make it ADA-compliant. No NYC-based GMD Classics were preserved by MTAB.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few 'Classic' examples below.

All photos taken by Michael Pompili and courtesy of BusTalk Galleries.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

Green Bus Line # 714

Jamaica Buses # 601

Queens Surface # 904

New York Bus Service # 1631
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Mr RT




Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article about the MCI Classics.

BTW, preserved is xLL 3006 from 1988.
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the good information Bob and the nice photos Mr. Linsky. This has got to be one of the best buses still in service in a few places. Unfortunately, I've never seen one in the Phoenix area. Sad
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Q65A



Age: 66
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Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks much to Mr. L for the colorful photos, which will serve as an excellent segue into my follow-up article about the MCI Classics.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob/Dave;

I'm a bit confused between the GMDD's, MCI's, and TMC's (if they made them in TMC's) but the photos are very representative of the breed.

Still in service is right, and they're running like champs in Santa Monica as depicted below.

Personally, I think the 'Classics' are among the nicest looking buses to have ever come from any design studio!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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Q65A



Age: 66
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the RTS, The Classic was manufactured by 3 different firms (GMD, MCI, and NovaBus), and, also like the RTS, changes of ownership usually were not reflected in the appearance of the product. Personally, I think that the Santa Monica units are the sharpest looking Classics (followed in no particular order by those operated by CT, LL, and NYBS.)
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

I agree!

I wonder why only 'MCI' identified themselves as the manufacturer with their very elegant logo under the left set of headlamps?

If GMDD did it as well, I never saw it and I don't think I've seen a Nova trademark either.

It's funny because to my memory GM always had some marking except for the TD 4506's.

Then again, I could never understand why TMC didn't change the GMC to TMC when they started making the RTS's.

Mr. 'L'
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Waynejay



Age: 58
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Location: Silver Spring, MD

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Bob,

I agree!

I wonder why only 'MCI' identified themselves as the manufacturer with their very elegant logo under the left set of headlamps?

If GMDD did it as well, I never saw it and I don't think I've seen a Nova trademark either.



At least some of the GMDD Classics had the man. logos.

Photo from www.busdrawings.com
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Q65A



Age: 66
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Historical Buses of NYC: The GMD Classic Reply with quote

Q65A wrote:
GMD produced 1,603 Classics from 1983 to 1987.

I stand corrected on this figure; it should be 1,111 instead.
Sorry for the error.
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The Port of Authority




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Still in service is right, and they're running like champs in Santa Monica as depicted below.

{image removed to save bandwidth}


The Classics that still run in Santa Monica were manufactured by NovaBus in 1995, so they've still got a few more years. I believe they're also wheelchair accessible, so that's a plus.

Here's another NYC-area Classic photo to add to the list: a Triboro Coach Classic, taken in 2005 by yours truly. Unfortunately these buses did not survive the MTA Bus takeover and were scrapped almost immediately. I always liked the red and cream paint scheme on these buses:

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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A beautiful picture of a nice looking bus, indeed!
MTAB white & blue certainly is neat, clean and very professional, but I think that we busfans all will miss the colorful liveries of the PBL's.
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Waynejay



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took this shot in LA back in 2005. I'm guessing (by it's taller front doors & wider front dest. sign window) that it's newer than 5100 series Santa Monica Nova Classics???

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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W. J.,

You're close but no cigar!

This is what the records reflect for all 'Big Blue Bus' Classic deliveries;

GMDD; 5123 TO 5153 Delivered November/December 1985, and 5154 to 5180 delivered in February and April 1986.

MCI; 5181 (Demo August 1988), 5182 to 5190 Delivered October 1988, 5191 to 5200 Delivered October 1989, 5201 to 5210 Delivered June 1990, 4951 to 4960 Delivered November 1991.

NOVA BUS; 4801 (Demo) and 4802 to 4821 do not show delivery dates but would have been no earlier than 1993.

Your great picture of 4803 is a post 1992 Nova Bus.

Personally, I never noticed the difference in the height of the front doors and the width of the destination signs - and these buses must pass my block fifty times a day!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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ripta42
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Alan Gryfe'sNovaBus Classic delivery list, 4801-4821 are 1995 Classics.
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