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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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 Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:32 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
I will admit I have long, long (and steadfastly!) preferred roller signs over the electronic variety; but, I will admit, I also share your preference, regarding the "gizmo" signage! 
Recall, how subway cars like the R-62's and R-46's were later re-equipped with modern electronic signs.
I have often wondered if the "Em-Tee-Yay" ever considered experimenting with such modern technology signage on Fishbowls and/or "Dangerfields"?
Recall, early on, some "Bombers" and early RTS running for the indies were originally equipped with roller curtains..........
"NYO"
["PA 1347"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:35 am Post subject: |
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These "big and bold" roller curtains (as displayed by two MSBA "Bombers") certainly were no strain upon the eyes.........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl//show?156580
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["N 35 Hempstead"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4507
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | These "big and bold" roller curtains (as displayed by two MSBA "Bombers") certainly were no strain upon the eyes.........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl//show?156580
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["N 35 Hempstead"] |
If the type got any larger, they'd've had to have a box twice the size of that on the fronts of the last "Shermans" made for Fifth Avenue Coach Lines and Surface Transit! |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | These "big and bold" roller curtains (as displayed by two MSBA "Bombers") certainly were no strain upon the eyes.........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl//show?156580
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["N 35 Hempstead"] |
If the type got any larger, they'd've had to have a box twice the size of that on the fronts of the last "Shermans" made for Fifth Avenue Coach Lines and Surface Transit! |
W.B.:
Agreed!
The Flex Metros I rode for years (1990's) on Academy's rush-hour "Boulevard East" run (Nungessers-Hoboken) also utilized HUGE fonts on their roller curtains (white-on-blue); the buses on this route had HUGE fonts (all caps!) that shouted out:
"HOBOKEN PATH TUBES"
NO problem in seeing these signs from a distance!
Then, "Powers That Be" later decided to replace these bold roller curtains with electronic signs; DANG HARD to read on a sunny day, and I used to assist the drivers on the first inbound AM run by standing in front of the bus, while they tried to punch in the correct code for the route they need to display! 
NONE of the drivers were happy with the new "new tech" signs;neither was Your's Truly!
"NYO"
["HOBOKEN PATH TUBES"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:32 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Quick question:
We know, of course, that "stoa" purchased "Gee-Em" T6H-5309As to replace the "Toid Aven-uh" El up in "da Bronx" in 1973.
I am curious as to how long these buses lasted in service before finally being retired (and this might have been touched up here quite awhile back in this topic)
Did any of these buses make into the last days of Fishbowl operation in the later 1990's?
What garage(s) hosted them through their years of service? (this, also, might have been mentioned awhile ago)
Appreciate, as always, info..........
"NYO"
['MABSTOA"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Another quick inquiry:
The film version of "FUNNY GIRL" (Streisand) debuted in September, 1968.
I know that, by this late date, the remaining "Pattons" were running on Staten Island (if I am correct), they were a minority in the "Tee-Yay"/"stoa" fleets.
The venerable "Shermans" would soldier on for a few more years, but, even here, their numbers were rapidly dwindling.
My question: What routes (garages) still hosted "Shermans" and "Pattons" in September of '68?
Thanks in advance for info.....
"NYO"
["HENRY STREET"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4507
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
Quick question:
We know, of course, that "stoa" purchased "Gee-Em" T6H-5309As to replace the "Toid Aven-uh" El up in "da Bronx" in 1973.
I am curious as to how long these buses lasted in service before finally being retired (and this might have been touched up here quite awhile back in this topic)
Did any of these buses make into the last days of Fishbowl operation in the later 1990's?
What garage(s) hosted them through their years of service? (this, also, might have been mentioned awhile ago)
Appreciate, as always, info..........
"NYO"
['MABSTOA"] |
Technically, it was to allow the retirement of the last FACL/ST Fishbowls, and the last 60 buses ordered by any of the two city bus agencies operated by the 'Em-Tee-Yay' (4860-4919) were assigned to Kingsbridge where the Bx55 'Toid Aven-yah' line was, but . . .
I read that those buses in the 1972-73 group that Blitz rebuilt were numbered in the 5300's. (The 5000's were rebuilt 1967 buses, the 5100's apparently from the 1968 order, and 5200's from 1971.) Of course, the last of that group that was retired, in 1995, was #5227 - ex 4401, from the 1971 T6H-5305A order.
As a side note, so little of that third-gen model was ordered - and only by the "Tee-Yay," along with a prior order in late 1968 that was the first to have: a) the 'M' insignia pasted on, and b) no script above the standee windows; plus 50 of those being the last to carry the "batwings" - that they seemed, at the outset, to have as little respect accorded it as the "Dangerfields," save those built for express service that would get to travel to Manhattan.
The 1972-73 'OA' orders were initially assigned thus:
- 4800-4819 - Hudson (for years the only buses of that order to serve anywhere in Manhattan)
- 4820-4839, 4860-4919 - Kingsbridge
- 4840-4859 - Coliseum
plus 4500-4506 (T6H-5310A express buses) - 100th Street (only 6 were built for " 'stoa" since 5303's 8459-8477 were converted for express service during 1972)
As a marker of how little respect the 1968-71 5305A Fishbowls got compared with the 1963-67 sets, here's where these were first assigned:
- 8801-8853 - Ulmer Park
- 8854-8933 - Staten Island
(after that order was when the 6000 series "Pattons" were retired and, except for #6259, sent to the scrapper; the last of " 'stoa's" 4900-series "Pattons" had been retired in 1967 when the A/C Fishbowls 8301-8780 all arrived)
- 4300-4335 - East New York
- 4336-4415 - Jamaica
- 4416-4455 - Flushing
- 4456-4499 (all buses from 4484 onwards express) - Staten Island
And the 'Tee-Yay' 5309A's:
- 6000-6089 - Flatbush
- 6090-6139 - Ulmer Park
- 6140-6163 - East New York
- 6200-6234 - Flushing
- 6235-6249 - East New York
- 6250-6284 - Staten Island
- 6285-6314 - Ulmer Park
- 6315-6334 - Crosstown
- 6335-6349 - Fresh Pond
And finally, their 5310A's:
- 6164-6169 - Ulmer Park
- 6170-6183 - Jamaica
- 6184-6199 - Staten Island
- 6901-6924 - Staten Island
- 6925-6938 - Fifth Avenue (now the "Jackie Gleason Depot")
- 6939-6947 - East New York
- 6948-6956 - Flushing
Notice: Though the express buses in the bunch went to Manhattan, not one of the regular "Tee-Yay" 5309A's were assigned to 126th Street at the onset for service on their five Manhattan routes. And by the time the last of these custom-built Fishbowls were made, the last remaining 7000- and 9000-series "Shermans" were finally put to pasture and, with what went on in 'OA' territory, finally closed the book on the "olden days" in bus transportation. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:17 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
"Ask for an INCH, and you get a MILE!" 
WOW!!!!!!!
GREATLY appreciate such extensive, concise data; yes, indeed....that was STILL a time when buses STILL looked like BUSES, and one didn't have to worry about becoming a statistic once on-board. 
Recalling Staten Island, I can still clearly remember the St. George terminal's bus lanes populated by only "Shermans" and "Pattons" (of course, Your's Truly also recalls the SIRT ME-1's and 69th St. boats!)
Given that (from I heard mention of years ago) Staten Island was long known as "the place where old buses go to retire", I'm surprised that the remaining FACCo/ST Fishbowls didn't end their days there.
Speaking of garages, remember too, that, in those days, garages staffed MECHANICS and ELECTRICIANS; NO NEED of NASA-trained computer technicians!  
Thanks again for taking the time to post all of this extensive information here......
"NYO"
["RIDE THE RAPID"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4507
Location: New York, New York, USA
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4507
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | | Given that (from I heard mention of years ago) Staten Island was long known as "the place where old buses go to retire", I'm surprised that the remaining FACCo/ST Fishbowls didn't end their days there. |
SI was where old 'Tee-Yay' buses went to die. Where hand-me downs from FACCo, NYCO and ST usually went to die was 'da Bronx'. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30856
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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W.B:
EXCELLENT selection of photos!!
Hard to believe that these once-commonplace images are now over 50 years old!
One thing that has always greatly interested me (regarding "Noo Yawk"bus operations) was the initial assignment of new buses to the various garages, as well as garage "swaps".
It had to have been interesting to see just how new buses were "parceled out" to the various garages around the city
Who got what?
Who was in charge of the allocations to the different depots? (take notice, Ralph Kramden always used the terminology "depot", and not "garage"!)
Given how rough "da Bronx" was getting by the early/mid-70's, it really is no stretch of the imagination to picture the very last of the work-scarred "Shermans" serving "da Bronx" at least through the mid-70's.
Certainly, by the dawn of the 70's, I think it became more than apparent as to why all new buses were being delivered with plastic seating (and why older subway cars were having their original upholstered seats also replaced by plastic)
Remember, also, that when the C-49 "Pattons" (6000-6317) had their original seating replaced, those running in Brooklyn had green plastic seats installed, while those running on Staten Island were re-furnished with pink seating...........
"NYO"
["6082"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4507
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The seats may've been plastic by the 1970's. When the first of the 7000-series 'Shermans' first arrived in 1957 - or was it the 9000's in 1958? - the seating was actually fiberglass, and for the same reasons - upholstered seats being vandalized. FACL still had upholstered seating right up to their two 1960 sets of Fishbowls (3101-3110 and A/C 1-10 in the first set, 3111-3160 and ST 3161-3210 in the second). When the first 'Tee-Yay' and " 'stoa" Fishbowls arrived, their seats were fiberglass too. Same with all new subway car seats beginning with "Eye-Are-Tee's" R-26/28 and "Bee-Em-Tee's" R-27/30/30A cars, and retrofitted on most if not all remaining older cars. |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4507
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | WIt had to have been interesting to see just how new buses were "parceled out" to the various garages around the city
Who got what?
Who was in charge of the allocations to the different depots? (take notice, Ralph Kramden always used the terminology "depot", and not "garage"!) |
That set of questions may be but a clue as to why no "Dangerfields" of 1964-66, when initially arrived, had even a snippet of Manhattan assignments. Nor the 1968 or '71 T6H-5305A Fishbowls. Let alone both sets of 1969-70 "Dangerfields" ("Tee-Yay" 4000-4202 and " 'stoa" 4600-4727).
I should also note that when the "Tee-Yay's" first A/C Fishbowls (all batwinged) arrived in 1967, the last 80 (8123-8202) all went to Manhattan - and then the first 149 of the 1963 Fishbowl order (3601-3749) that'd been there up to that time were parceled out to other depots in outer boroughs. With the last of the FACL/ST Fishbowls transferred elsewhere by 1967 (including the renumbered A/C buses 3211-3220), the oldest city-owned Fishbowls carrying Manhattan passengers were from among the 1960 set of the "Tee-Yay" (though by 1969 a few of the real oldies, starting with #1, were traveling around Manhattan). |
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