BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Man, that IS complex (AND confusing!)....what were they thinking??

Here in "Joisey", when NJT first took the reins in the early 1980's, many routes still carried their old route numbers.

Eventually, more and more routes were re-numbered.

For instance, the ex-PS/TNJ #21 (Fort Lee-Hoboken), a line that i commuted on for years, became the #181 (today, the route is much truncated, and offers now only VERY limited service)

Then, again, you have the #165 and #166 (to PABT), both Bergen County routes) STILL carrying their old PS.TNJ numbers.

The old "B-1" is today the #751 (way back in the old days, this was a PS/TNJ BERGEN Division line)

All in all, a LOT simpler to comprehend, than the never-ending (and oft-confusing!) number changes in "Noo Yawk"(!!)

But, hey, that's what makes it all so INTERESTING!

['NYO"

["#21 WEST NEW YORK"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

For your viewing pleasure, here are some assorted views of first-generation "Tee-Yay" Fishbowls......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153213

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153367

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153176

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153366

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153188

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153388

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["78 MILL BASIN"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's a few more...........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153173

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153357

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153203

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["39 TO ALLEN ST."]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

More "First Generation" memories..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153230

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153171

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153255

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153372

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["New York City Transit Authority"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Later years................

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153216

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153231

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153383

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["682"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

It goes without saying (though I may've said it a hundred times or more) that amongst the "Em-Tee-Yay" 'family', the "Tee-Yay's" Manhattan Bus Division, by the 1970's, and by dint of those "first-gens," had the oldest buses along the roads, whilst the earliest " 'stoa's" in Manhattan were the first of the second-gen Fishbowls. (Of course, Avenue B & East Broadway would've had both beat, with their ol' reliable "Pattons.")

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

That "AVENUE B" held onto its solid, stalwart "Pattons" for so long (several years after the last "Tee-Yay" counterparts were retired) is noteworthy; here in 'Joisey", the very last Pattons" (and, believe me, they were once commonplace!) vanished sometime around 1967/1968.

I still enjoy speculating on "AVENUE B" surviving as an "indy" company (we already know that they were to receive "Borough Bombers".

Imagine, now, if you will "AVENUE B" taking delivery of the RTS?

From: "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES"(Martin)......

".......the end came in 1980; prior to this, the company asked the City of New York for financial help. The City responded by placing an order for 13 new Flxibles (aka"Borough Bombers") to be owned by MABSTOA and leased to Avenue B........."

".......it was too little, too late. The 40-foot long, 96-inch wide buses arrived after operations ceased, and were absorbed into the MABSTOA fleet. Operations were taken over by the City under MABSTOA........"

"NYO"

["M9-AVE. B"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

The local "indy" companies I grew up with, though "Shermans" dominated, virtually all rostered a number of "Pattons".

I can clearly recall C-45's and C-49/50's

It was around later in 1966 that I recall the last of the "square window" Old Looks being put out to pasture.

The WHITES lasted through at least part of 1967 (if memory serves me correctly), with the "Pattons" disappearing before 1969.

The last Staten Island "Sherman" I remember riding (actually, it was a round trip) was with my folks on a summer Sunday, about 1968/1969, from St. George to the Richmondtown historic site.

I still clearly remember that this veteran bus was particularly noisy, putting on quite a "performance" for its riders!

Man, it's all so long ago, now.....

"NYO"

["SURE-IT'S A MACK"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B:

I don't think I ever got the "full story" of the "Em-Tee-Yay's takeover of the Queens independents.

What was the story on this?

How long had this takeover been planned

Appreciate any info....

"NYO"

["QUEENS SURFACE"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Follow up:

Were the "indy" buses taken over by the "Em-Tee-Yay" ever repainted into company colors, or did they only have new "MTA" logos applied?

"NYO"

["TRIBORO COACH"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

I recall during the early NJT era, when a number of Fishbowls and "Dangerfields" were being repainted into the new "Eskimo Pie"/"Disco Stripes" scheme (which I HATED!)

However, a number of Fishbowls, I recall, were never repainted (thankfully); I do remember seeing "ORANGE & BLACK" and "MANAHATTAN LINES" Fishbowls still in their original paint, but with their original lettering being rubbed out.

The "Em-Tee-Yay's" attractive two-tone blue of the early/mid-1970's I indeed liked and could easily live with; however, the later "dip" paint schemes......

Like yourself, I've always been MORE than partial to the classic "Tee-Yay" green of the 60's.......

"NYO"

["TA"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Thought.......

By the time FACCo operated its last double-deckers in 1953, it had been many a year since a domestic bus builder had turned out a double-decker.

What MIGHT a FACCo double-decker double-decker looked like, had FACCo not decide to go with only single-deckers? (imagine a double-deck "Sherman" or "Patton"??)

One thing that FACCo certainly no longer had to worry about (after the 1946 retirement of the old open-toppers) was a loss of ridership in rainy, inclement weather.

Whereas London's "GENERAL", by the later 1920's, was rebuilding many of its oldest open-toppers with enclosed upper decks (as well as purchasing new buses with enclosed top decks) FACCo opted not to do likewise with its older buses, which meant they retained their original open open upper decks until retirement..........

"NYO"

["19 RIVERSIDE DRIVE"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Though, by the late 1920's, most of the "GENERAL" open-toppers had been upgraded with not only enclosed upper decks, but also, had their solid rubber "tyres" replaced with modern pneumatic ones.

However, there were exceptional "holdovers"; some of the oldest buses were still rolling along with (well-worn) solid rubber tryres until they were retired in the mid-1930's.

In this respect, FACCo was more "modern" for sure.

Am curious as to just when FACCo began switching over to pneumatic tires (sometime between 1925 and 1930?)

I've seen photos of elderly FACCo "service trucks" still sporting solid rubber tires into the 1950's.......

"NYO"

["SPECIAL"]