BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[Cyberider]

Different door arrangement and no skirts on the Dallas cars.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

Those double-ended cars would have been good choices for the Newark City Subway, being that, prior to late 1953, the Franklin Avenue station was a stub terminal.

But, by that late date, PSNJ had already purchased the 30 nex-TCRT PCCs........

"NYO"

["CITY SUBWAY"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Important to remember........

The "Red Car" was indeed unique among interurbans in that, not only did it operate a number of INTERURBAN lines, but also, a network of local streetcar lines, radiating out of Los Angeles.

Most interurban companies, back in the day, offered only inter-city operations; IF, in the event, they DID also operate local streetcar service, is was indeed "small time",. when compared to PE's complex network of local streetcar lines.

The 1950s were indeed dark and dismal days for the iconic "Red Car"; IMHO, when the lines serving the echoing, cavernous Subway Terminal were converted in 1955, you could see that this was indeed "the beginning of the end".

When the Watts line went to buses about 1959, one knew that the Long Beach line was also not long for the world.

How the mighty had fallen............

"NYO"

["WATTS"]

[Cyberider]

Actually, things were winding down by 1940 with the abandonment of most local lines and several interurban lines along with the scrapping of equipment. WWII helped save what was left but by the late 1940's, the writing was on the wall for the rest of it. The Venice Short Line went in 1950 and the remaining Northern District lines in 1951. PE sold all passenger operations to MCL in 1953. Hollywood Blvd. Glendale, and the San Fernando Valley line were soon gone leaving only the Long Beach and it's associated lines remaining.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

WW2, as dark a time as it was for our nation......and the world.....turned out to be an unexpected reprieve for many electric rail operations throughout the country.

Many systems also brought older rolling stock that had been in storage, to help with the tremendous load of wartime traffic.

Had the numerous HUDSON and ESSEX Division car lines PSNJ converted to ASV and buses between 1937 and 1938 still been in use when War was declared, they would have, certainly, also been given a new lease on life, and continued operating until at least the end of conflicts in 1945.

During the War, PE also had needed extra equipment on hand ("the Blimps") purchased from the defunct operations in the East Bay area ("IER"/"NWP") of San Francisco,

How ironic that these second-hand cars would be the last to operate over "Red Car" rails in 1961..........

"NYO"

["SANTA ANA"]

[Cyberider]

Ironically, PE scrapped almost it's entire fleet of 800 class cars in 1940 and was starting to scrap the 950's as well when the US entered the war. About 30 950's survived to continue serving on the Venice Short Line and the Glendale line until they were scrapped in 1950 along with the 1000 class. Meanwhile, the 500 class cars had been scrapped in the late 1930's so it wasn't surprising that PE found itself short of equipment when the WWII traffic commenced.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

Back East, PSNJ rostered well over 2,000 cars at the start of the 1930s.

By the time War was declared in 1941, perhaps only 200/300 or so cars remained on the roster; by that time, only the HUDSON and ESSEX Divisions still had streetcars.

PSNJ was then wishing that they had NOT scrapped so many hundreds of cars, prior to 1940, as a result of their short-sightedness.

There WERE roughly two dozen OOS "Compromise" roof cars, stored at Passaic Wharf since 1937/1938; these cars were brought out of storage in 1942, and rehabbed for wartime service on the HUDSON and ESSEX Division lines.

Ironically, not all of these cars made a return to revenue service.

Getting back to PE, it would seem that the the routes then in operation were thought to be prime targets for Japanses bombers, had enemy planes reached LA and its surrounding areas; power plants and substations, especially, could have been prime targets...........

"NYO"

["RIDE THE RED CARS"]

[Cyberider]

The only prevention against possible enemy attack I'm aware of that PE took was to put hoods over the headlights on their cars. However, one major aircraft factory in the LA area had the whole thing disguised to look like something else.

Seems like a lot of companies were scrapping their fleets even with the war already going on in Europe. The PE 800's, of which there were over 100, last served in 1940 and, but 4 or 5 which were saved for the Torrance Shop Train, were scrapped before the US entered the war. These were interurban cars that could have done what the blimps did except it would take two of them to equal the carrying capacity of one blimp. But, they were faster.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

Appreciate this info; interesting!

PS scrapped their last surplus streetcars at Passaic Wharf (Newark) in 1943; these cars were the very last of the speedy 3500s, which, until 1938, dominated the "HUDSON RIVER" line (BERGEN Division).

After these last few cars were scrapped, PS closed Passaic Wharf altogether.

Did not know about the demise of PE's 800s.

Streetcar-wise, it would seem that the "Hollywood"-type cars dominated, with the PCCs being in the ultra-minority...........

"NYO"

BTW:

During WW2, London Transport also affixed "hoods" over the headlights of their buses and trams, during the War.

["SUBWAY TERMINAL"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Also.......

I am now being reminded of the CRT (Chicago); at the time that WW2 broke out, the company had a large number of OOS trailers stored away, which had not operated in a number of years.

There had been some serious talk to renovate these trailers as one-man motor cars, to help cope with the tremendous wartime passenger loads, but, in the end, this conversion project was put to rest.

However, many of these trailers (sans trucks) remained in use as storage sheds/crew quarters, at several car houses, into the 1950s..........

"NYO"

["CHICAGO RAPID TRANSIT"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Further...........

NYW&B (service ended 1937)

IER (service ended 1940)

NWP (service ended 1941)

There IS a chance that, had these three electric railways survived into at least 1942, they might have not been abandoned, and kept in operation through the War, and perhaps, at least, into the early postwar era...........

"NYO"

["RIDE THE WESTCHESTER"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Recalling the long-defunct Long Beach lone, the very last vestige of the once-vast, far-flung "Red Car" empire.............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beach_Line

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Ana_Line *

*Note early photo of "Blimp" #4508, still furnished with its original sliding vestibule gates, a holdover from its East Bay days.........

["LOS ANGELES"]

[Cyberider]

Yep, too bad so many had to quit before WWII. Of course, that would have only extended their service for a few more years anyway. Rail transit in paved city streets doesn't really make much sense. It did when they were built in dirt streets that turned into quagmires when it rained. It certainly makes no sense in Phoenix with their LRV system almost entirely in city streets and the frequent interruptions in service due to track blockages. As much as I like rail, buses are more versatile and less likely to not be able to complete their routes. We've had a lot of rain here the past few days and at least one area of the LRV system was flooded requiring bus "bridges." If they were running buses, no "bridge" would have been needed.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider;'

Good response.

Regarding street trackage, recall the extensive conduit networks in New York and in DC.

Though overhead wires were eliminated, any sort of maintainence (especially major work) required excavation, which of course, also greatly disrupted vehicular traffic.

"Pulled" plows were another major headache, both in the winter and in the summer; the plows would have to be cut loose with torches, and I've seen TARS and Washington DC photos where more than a dozen streetcars were stalled while crews worked to removed the offending plow from the conduit slot.

In DC, especially, I think that this was one of the major factors in eliminating the remaining streetcars in early 1962.

Nothing in this world is ever 100% "foolproof"..........

"NYO"

["DC TRANSIT"]