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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2720 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:42 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | WB: Appreciate this info: this Your's Truly already knew about (thanks to experst such as yourself); what I was referring was the QUITE tiny "stoa" lettering just behind the front door (here Your's Truly is referring to what the buses carried in the later years-using the RTS "Torpedo" to allude to what I had been thinking of)-------personally-I think that when the last of the "OA" badges disappeared-as well as the styish script crowning the windows-the original "stoa" era ended-----------"NYO" |
It was sometime in the mid-to-late '80's, then, if that's what you're asking - by later in the decade I saw some repainted "Torpedos" that had been on the streets since the early '80's, once mentioned " 'stoa" near the front door, now mentioned "Tee-Yay" in that same small print. Of course, everything of that ilk disappeared once the "angled MTA in a circle" logo premiered in 1993-94, replacing the 'M'. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:32 am Post subject: |
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WB: Thanks----this is what I was curious about; that was indeed when the last "separate identity" for "stoa" disappeared-------"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Just think of the early days of "stoa"----here we had a new operator on the "Noo Yawk" transit scene-----an operation that indeed inherited a huge and colorful "heritage fleet" (recall only a handful of ex-FACL/ST "Jetson" Fishbowls were included in this huge "inheritance")-----------think also of how elderly the square-window Old Looks were by that date-along with the ex-SURFACE "Pattons" (strange-SURFACE did not roster any of the larger C-49/C-50 types)----------"NYO" |
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MaBSTOA 15
Age: 70 Joined: 27 Feb 2013 Posts: 1062
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Surface operated approximately forty-seven C-49-DT. And of course the 25 C-50-DT they inherited from Fifth Avenue Coach. |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2720 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | Surface operated approximately forty-seven C-49-DT. And of course the 25 C-50-DT they inherited from Fifth Avenue Coach. |
Yep. And those C-49-DT's were what were put to pasture once the 1967 order of A/C batwing Fishbowl "Bullets" came to " 'stoa" depots in both boroughs they served. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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In the first edition of Stan Fischler's "UPTOWN DOWN", there is mention of a proposal from during the "Lind-sley" years which would have had the "Toid Aven-uh" elevated up in "da Bronx" torn down and replaced by a new subway route.
This, of course, would have also required a ramp to be built to bring Dyre Avenue-bound "Eye-Are-Tee" trains down from the elevated trackage at E. 180th Street, and into the new subway.
IMHO, I believe this plan was far too expensive for the NYCTA/MTA; far cheaper, indeed, to simply replace the elevated trains with "stoa" buses, even though one bus certainly could not do the job of one four-car train.
It would have been quite interesting, however, to see a new 3rd Avenue Subway replace the former El.............
"NYO"
["GUN HILL ROAD"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Further:
It would be interesting to learn if any plans were ever drawn up depicting a future 3rd Avenue Subway in "da Bronx", for the replacing the El.
Of course, there were no "designated bus lanes" in the city at that time, but it still interesting the picture "stoa" buses operating along "Toid" within their own "row".
Unfeasible, yes, but I also wonder how many daily riders preferred the elevated trains to the replacement "stoa" buses...........
"NYO"
["OA"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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"Stoa" buses/"Eye-Are-Tee" elevated trains........
Curious as to how many sets of R-12s were assigned to the "Toid Aven-uh" El between 1969 and the line's closure in 1973; how was scheduling determined for the replacement buses?
Also, were new bus stops implemented, as near to former El stations as possible, or did the replacement buses simply call at existing stops?
Then, also, consider the number of passengers (seated and standing) aboard a four-car El train, and then consider the number carried by one bus........
"NYO"
{"MaBSTOA"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2720 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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On eBay now (time sensitive) is a set of annual reports. It was specifically mentioned in the "Tee-Yay's" 1958 annual report that the 9000-series "Shermans" - the last of that lot they ever ordered - were strictly as replacements for older buses in Brooklyn and Queens, thus Manhattan would not have gotten even one (besides, they already had 7000-series buses running in that borough anyway, passing through the "Ewe-En," Rockefeller Center and all that jazz).
Oh, and for those insisting "this is a bus forum," an annual report from NYCO for 1945 is also included . . .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/395421405623 |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Interesting information, regarding those "Shermans".
Regarding the "Toid-Aven-uh" El, I think it cannot be said that the El brought blight and crime to that area of "da Bronx"........just look at what an explosive combat zone the borough is today, over 50 years since the last trains clattered and rattled along "Toid"........
"NYO"
["TO THIRD AVENUE ELEVATED"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thought........
I wonder if there were ever (serious) plans to build a crosstown subway, running along 42nd Street, between 12th and 1st Avenues.
Recall, also, there was never even a crosstown El line running along 42nd.
And how might TARS/SURFACE been affected, had such a subway been built?
Too, consider a crosstown subway running the length of 125th Stret.......
"NYO"
["Bee-Oh-Tee"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Also, if crosstown subways had been built under 42nd Street and 125th Street, it would seem (IMHO) that riders would opt for the subway if they were traveling all the way across town, while using the TARS streetcars (or SURFACE buses) for the "short hops".........
"NYO"
["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2720 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
Interesting information, regarding those "Shermans".
Regarding the "Toid-Aven-uh" El, I think it cannot be said that the El brought blight and crime to that area of "da Bronx"........just look at what an explosive combat zone the borough is today, over 50 years since the last trains clattered and rattled along "Toid"........
"NYO"
["TO THIRD AVENUE ELEVATED"] |
No . . . but the end of the 'Toid Aven-yah' El certainly brought all that blight and crime to that beleaguered borough-turned "explosive combat zone." |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23632 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Da Bronx" of "The Goldbergs" and "Marty" are now but fleeting glimpses of the fabled borough before it nosedived totally out of control, by the 1970s (and sadly, this more than holds true today)
Recall the collective howls and hoots regarding the old "Bee-Em-Tee" Jamaica El, that the El was "a blight" and "bringing down the area".
Well, today, nearly 50 years since the El was demolished, can it be truthfully said that the area where the El once rumbled and clattered along is today a "tony", gentrified area?
I think not...........
Last time I was up in "Da Bronx" was when I was riding the R-27/30s on the "C", over 30 years ago; like "Noo Yawk" in general, I have no desire to revisit.........
"NYO"
["BMT LINES"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2720 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 7:43 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
Da Bronx" of "The Goldbergs" and "Marty" are now but fleeting glimpses of the fabled borough before it nosedived totally out of control, by the 1970s (and sadly, this more than holds true today)
Recall the collective howls and hoots regarding the old "Bee-Em-Tee" Jamaica El, that the El was "a blight" and "bringing down the area".
Well, today, nearly 50 years since the El was demolished, can it be truthfully said that the area where the El once rumbled and clattered along is today a "tony", gentrified area?
I think not...........
Last time I was up in "Da Bronx" was when I was riding the R-27/30s on the "C", over 30 years ago; like "Noo Yawk" in general, I have no desire to revisit.........
"NYO"
["BMT LINES"] |
Indeed, I know of only three "boulevards" that became "tony" and "gentrified" after the "el" was eliminated, all in Manhattan and the heart thereof: Sixth Avenue (which in 1945 was renamed "Avenue of the Americas"); Third Avenue (rows and rows of "big league" office buildings - come to think of it, so has Sixth); and Second Avenue (mostly between 42d and 57th Streets). Not so much Ninth Avenue, though, but it didn't deteriorate so much (a la "da Bronx" and the affected section of Jamaica) as be static, not changing that much. |
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