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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2422 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | WB: Regarding WHITES (of ANY type) in "Noo Yawk" Your's Truly still scratches his gray head wondering why FACCo decided to order the handful of 1150s in the early 1950's-for the Jackson Heights route (#15); though the "See-Tee-Yay" wasn't gung-ho with Old Looks-the suburban outfits running into "Shik-aga" indeed preferred the Old Looks (pretty "in sync" with the scenario here-back in the day); 5305s/5105s/4509s*/4512s were popular with these operators------"NYO" *( recall PSNJ purchased hundreds of 4509s after the War) |
Sounds like FACCo's White order preceded "Gee-Em's" rolling out of the TDH-5104's, of which they also ordered quite a bit. But it also shows how much (or in this case, little) respect Whites got in "Noo Yawk," for them to be shunted to Queens (only venturing into Manhattan from there). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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WB-----------Here in "Joisey" (Hudson County) for a good chunk of the 1960's-WHITES were always on hand; NHBL (though Old Looks and "Pattons" ruled the roost) also rostered 798s and 1150s----------INTER-CITY rostered both 798s and 1150's (suburbans) through the late 1960s (they also operated Old Looks and "Brill-boas"); as best I can recall-the last WHITES in the Hudson County area disappeared about 1967-----------"NYO" (also-recall too-PSNJ was another operator who basically eschewed WHITE)
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Talk about "oddballs"-----------consider the two REO 96-HTDs operated by "NORTH SHORE"-these two "orphans" would be gone by 1951; here in "Joisey" two Hudson County "indies" rostered a few of these unusual buses into the 1960's (perhaps-then-the REO was not only an "oddball"-but also-the "Dangerfield" of its day)-------------"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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CSL "See-Es-El" (prewar) buses--------in addition to the larger buses-CSL (and its subsidiaries) operated quite an eclectic roster of shorter ones including ACFs/WHITES/FORDs--------as well as others; CSL's first bus was #1 ("CHICAGO RYs") a 1927 TWIN COACH (type 40); this boxy-looking bus (as well as its fellows) were all retired by the end of 1947 (recall-also-that one of the "indy" operators in Queens also operated early TWINS)-----"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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In "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES" (Greller) there is a photo of a C-41DT "Patton" at 125th & 1st back in 1948 ("indy" operator); this bus had extra-wide front and rear doors------it would appear that such doors would indeed be the thing for "crowd swallowing" on the busiest SURFACE routes------------"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:39 am Post subject: |
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"Oddballs" in Brooklyn-----------Ironic that Brooklyn's streetcars lasted for decades (the oldest cars were 35-40 years old when they clanged their last clangs)-while the postwar TWINS ("Oddballs") were practically new when they went to the scrap yard by the 1950's (no resale to other operators)-------if the workaday "Dangefields" gained little respect while they were in the fleet-rest assured that the "Oddballs" got still less; clearly the "Tee-Yay" was glad to be able to get these "Bee-oh-Tee" buses out of their fleet (first TWINS dated to 1947; hardly running for a decade when they were put out to pasture)------------ "NYO" |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2422 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | "Oddballs" in Brooklyn-----------Ironic that Brooklyn's streetcars lasted for decades (the oldest cars were 35-40 years old when they clanged their last clangs)-while the postwar TWINS ("Oddballs") were practically new when they went to the scrap yard by the 1950's (no resale to other operators)-------if the workaday "Dangefields" gained little respect while they were in the fleet-rest assured that the "Oddballs" got still less; clearly the "Tee-Yay" was glad to be able to get these "Bee-oh-Tee" buses out of their fleet (first TWINS dated to 1947; hardly running for a decade when they were put out to pasture)------------ "NYO" |
The Twin "Oddballs" lasted only a few years longer in Brooklyn than did the Grumman "Borough Bombers" in the whole of the five boroughs. Compared to those two, though, the "Dangerfields" were indeed dependable workhorses.
But notice, once the "Tee-Yay" and " 'stoa" got their first regular A/C buses (albeit "batwinged Bullets") in 1967, which type buses passed the scene: the Mack "Pattons," renumbered from 1954-58 Surface / ST fleets. "OA" especially, by 1970, seemed eager to rid themselves of any and all of the ex-FACL and -ST rolling stock with the front sign boxes. And those were quite young then too (11-12 years old at the time of retirement - with certain buses shuffled off to "Tee-Yay" service in Brooklyn - yet still lasting longer in service, apparently, than the misbegotten "Oddballs"). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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WB-------By the late 1960's the "Tee-Yay" had already put the rugged "Pattons"out to pasture; by 1970-all (non-Fishbowl) echoes of FACCo/ST/and early "Tee-Yay" had disappeared; with the exception of those Old looks fortunate enough to hold on until about 1973 in Brooklyn and Staten Island; I still say that those rugged "Pattons" easily would keep on running at least until about 1975----or perhaps beyond (of course-there WAS the issue of parts for "Pattons" no longer in production); in closing-it was "Jetson" Fishbowls (ex-FACCo/ST) that finally ended the era of these two long-established operators by the 1970's---------"NYO" *(BTW: what Brooklyn garage(s) was the last to stable Old Looks?) |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2422 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | WB-------By the late 1960's the "Tee-Yay" had already put the rugged "Pattons"out to pasture; by 1970-all (non-Fishbowl) echoes of FACCo/ST/and early "Tee-Yay" had disappeared; with the exception of those Old looks fortunate enough to hold on until about 1973 in Brooklyn and Staten Island; I still say that those rugged "Pattons" easily would keep on running at least until about 1975----or perhaps beyond (of course-there WAS the issue of parts for "Pattons" no longer in production); in closing-it was "Jetson" Fishbowls (ex-FACCo/ST) that finally ended the era of these two long-established operators by the 1970's---------"NYO" *(BTW: what Brooklyn garage(s) was the last to stable Old Looks?) |
I would say, check the routes on which the most recent pics of "Shermans" of the road were traveling. I can then, from what is mentioned, advise where they would have been stored towards the end of their run. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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WB: These Brooklyn routes-at least partially (as seen in the nycsubway photos) were using Old Looks in the 1971/1973 period-----------B38/B46/B54 "NYO" |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2422 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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B38 and B54 were out of Fresh Pond depot at the time, B46 at Flatbush. So those were likely where the last remnants of the evergreen "Old Looks" a.k.a. "Shermans" were based. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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WB: Thanks for this info; would it be safe to say that the last Old Looks to be running on the "Island of Staten" were assigned to Castleton? "NYO" |
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B53RICH
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 254
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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If my memory is correct, the last TA Old Look I saw in service was #7030 out of Fresh Pond around April of 1973 on a Friday early evening. The next day on Saturday, a brand new 5309A, #6336 was in service. Two weeks went by without seeing an Old Look until I realized that was the end of an era. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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B53RICH wrote: | If my memory is correct, the last TA Old Look I saw in service was #7030 out of Fresh Pond around April of 1973 on a Friday early evening. The next day on Saturday, a brand new 5309A, #6336 was in service. Two weeks went by without seeing an Old Look until I realized that was the end of an era. | B53RICH: thanks for sharing this recollection; it was likewise here in the Hudson/Bergen County area; one day the Old Looks (what was then still running) were still to be seen; but-----when a few days------and then a few weeks-----went by without seeing any-----that told Your's Truly that the Old looks were gone and an era had ended------ A good chunk of PSNJ's/TNJ's fleet of Old Look suburbans was still intact until 1976/1977-------when hundreds of the new NJDOT Flex New Looks (aka "Dangerfields") pretty quickly sent the stalwart Old Looks to the scrapyard----- ORANGE & BLACK's were retired in 1977; a SAD SAD sight to see these classic buses being towed off the property on their way to the torch----- (they were-by this late date-only used during the rush hours)----------The last few Old Looks I recall were those of the NHBL-running during rush hours on the #1 to Journal Square (I grew up with this line-which-today is operated by NJT) back in 1986; there were only a handful left-------and I still long for these rugged old workhorses today------growing up when I did-back in the 60's-the Old Look was indeed THE bus you encountered just about anywhere you went--------ahhh-----but those were the days! "NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22662 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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It is always interesting to ponder WHY certain cities found certain buses to their liking-while the buses of other builders were a "no go"; in "Noo Yawk" the postwar TWINS ("Oddballs") were nearly curiousities; in cities like "Shik-aga" and "Frisco" it was just the opposite-----TWINS were indeed the "ruling class"---------WHITES in "Joisey" were to be found just about anywhere-well into the 1960's; in "Noo Yawk"-well-you already know the story-----then too the "quirks"------------here in the Garden State- though suburban ACF-BRILL C-44's could be found-no "transits" existed-at least in the Hudson/Bergen area;-------interesting to wonder why the "See-Tee-Yay"-while purchasing nearly 1000 postwar TWINS- did not purchase any postwar TWINS as trolley buses (in San Fransisco-postwar TWIN COACH trolleybuses (and buses) ruled the hilly thoroughfares-------Scranton (PA) was still using WHITES into the early 1970's; interestingly enough-these old workhorses were replaced by ex-PSNJ Old Looks---------"NYO" |
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