BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

WB: Once again I greatly appreciate the detailed and in-depth historical info you always so kindly post here; when Your's Truly was still a young whippersnapper (and that is EONS ago!) I indeed do recall Old Looks and "Pattons" passing through TSQ; though-of-course-I liked the Fishbowls-but-----TSQ (to this fellow anyway) had a different "feel" about it-once the Old Looks and "Pattons" stopped passing through; after all-they were an integral part of the "Crossroads Of The World" for decades being depicted in countless postcards-photos-etc--------------"NYO" (another quick historical question: did any routes eer begin/end at TSQ-or were they all "through" routes? I would guess the latter holds true))

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

WB: Thanks for this info-------Another thing I was long curious about was SURFACE purchasing the forty TDH-5106s ("the bus with the sign that sticks out in front") in 1959; the reason Your's Truly is asking this is-by 1959-Fishbowls ("Jetsons") could be purchased-but-instead-SURFACE purchased their last Old Looks in '59 (the TDH-5301 "Jetson" Fishbowls would soon be on the property)-------was $$$$$$ the reason why SURFACE purchased Old Looks in '59-instead of Fishbowls? "NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

WB: All quite interesting-to be sure; thanks for "filling Your's Truly in" on this At the risk of repetition here-those unique 5106s were retired far far too soon; at just about 11 years of age-in "Joisey" such buses would then be considered "just well broken in"------an 11 year-old bus was considered pretty new when you think of WHITE 798's/20-year old Old Looks/and assorted prewar buses still running here in "Joisey" through a good chunk of the 60's-------also-look at the prewar ex-FACCo YELLOWS still running on crosstown routes into the early 1960's-----all exceeding TWENTY YEARS of age-----------"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Too------look at the ex-NYO 4506s-dating back to 1946------and running for nearly 20 years; in 1963/1964-the ex-SURFACE "Patton" C-45/C-47s (those still running) were retired; by this late date-these buses were at least 16 years old------far surpassing the 5106s with the protruding front signs---------- "NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

--------interesting too that there was a gap of about 10/11 years between the last Old Looks and the first "Torpedos" (RTS); when one looked at a "Torpedo"- indeed- the once-futuristic Fishbowl looked decidedly dated; Old Looks were true ancient relics-alongside a new "Torpedo"-had they still been around----------certainly-when "stoa" began operations-they inherited BUSES------and NOT giant caterpillars or rolling shoe boxes; how sleek and up-to-date the first postwar buses looked when they began running in the 1940's-and how dated they appeared by the 1960's-when Fishbowls and "Dangerfields" were quickly entering the "Tee-Yay" and "stoa" fleets----------"NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

WB: Good points all; personally speaking-today's "buses"either look as though they had been designed by either a fellow with not too great a grasp on "good taste" or a person just out of the "baby let your freak flag fly!" throes of a bad acid trip-after an Alice Cooper concert-------- ; I recently looked at pictures of new ugly-as-all-hell four-section articulateds that truly are a thousand light-years beyond HIDEOUS--------to say these "buses" are direct descendents of the fictitious "Purple People Eater" is indeed being too kind-----DO NOT start on the newest "buses" (and-also-highway coaches) with the insectoid front ends with huge antenna-like objects sticking out "QUICK-HENRY! THE FLIT!" -------------recall-also----------the "baby" Old Looks which were built through the late 1960's; had full-sized Old Looks continued in production during that era-think of "new generation" Old Looks being ordered by the "Tee-Yay" and "stoa"? ; these "shorties" were designated TDH-/TGH-5301 and 3502; these buses were built until 1969-when these were replaced in the catalogue by 33-passenger Fishbowls--------"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Preferences---------- Though FACCo and the "Tee-Yay"(and the earlier BoT) both rostered "Pattons"-it was clear that they were-indeed-quite popular with SURFACE -despite the Old Looks they operated; in old photos/postcards/etc-where SURFACE buses are to be seen------chances are-by far-that they will be "Pattons"-------there were 300 Old Looks in the SURFACE fleet by 1948 (TD/TDH-4507s); ten 5104s were added to the fleet during 1954----the last SURFACE Old Looks were-of course-the sleek 5106s (the buses with the "sign that sticks out in the front" which entered the fleet in 1959--------"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Interesting that the first postwar buses purchased by SURFACE were Old Looks (4506s/4507s); these entered the fleet prior to the first "Pattons" (C-45-DT) which did not appear until 1948--------"NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

WB: INTERESTING historical data-for sure! -------Speaking of the "Bee-oh-Tee"-after the War-it was as though they were "shopping around" for different bus builders-and this showed in the postwar fleet of the late 1940's; the "Bee-oh-Tee" fleet had Old Looks/"Pattons" and TWIN COACH "Oddballs"------------------the "Bee-oh-Tee" "Oddballs" appeared in 1947-as well as "Pattons" and the B&QT (St Louis) trolleybuses------the first Old Looks did not enter the "Bee-oh-Tee's" fleet until 1948 (4507s/4510s/5101s)------but------also in '48--------new "Pattons" again began to appear in the fleet (C-45s)----------"NYO"

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

WB: Talk about "what were they thinking?"-I still wonder why FACCo decided to purchase the few WHITE 1150-D-7s for the #15 (in 1953)-instead of Old Looks or "Pattons"; I know these "odd ducks"were sold to a Tennessee operator in 1960; I recall that NHBL rostered this type-when Your's Truly was but a lad If I recall-the only postwar "Pattons" FACCo rostered were the C-50-D7s (purchased in 1951)-----------"NYO"