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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2439 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:23 am Post subject: |
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If that's 'da Bronx', then that leg would have become Bx21 in July of that year.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
It would be interesting to learn just when the very last "two aspect" traffic lights in "Noo Yawk" finally vanished.
I would say the late 70's or early 80's, at the very latest.
In my general area, the very last (and there were not many left by that time) disappeared in the mid-later 1970's.....
"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Imagine this occurring in "Noo Yawk".......
2014, was designated by Transport For London as "The Year Of The Bus".
This event featured, throughout the year, many historic buses on display, as well as select vehicles carrying passengers.
Historic buses from the London Transport Museum at Covent Garden, as well as from other museums and private owners throughout Great Britain, were both on public display, as well as in operation for the general public.
Just imagine if something like this could have taken place here!
Of course, as I've mentioned previously, historic bus preservation in Great Britain far surpasses anything here; as with with railway preservation, bus preservation (though taking a setback during COVID lockdowns, these past few years) is an extensive and quite serious enterprise "across the pond".......
"NYO"
["38 VICTORIA & CLAPTON POND"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:05 am Post subject: |
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The now-classic and iconic "ROUTEMASTER"was, as mentioned elswhere in this topic, the very last bus designed for service in London.
It was also the last front-engined bus purchased new by LONDON TRANSPORT.
Though, by the early-mid 1960's, new front-door, rear engine, one-man double-deckers began making inroads into the LT fleet; they were not all that popular with the drivers, nor with passengers.
Most drivers disliked the new one-man buses as they now had to collect fares, in addition to driving their bus; passengers didn't like not being able to hop on or off wherever they pleased, a time-honored London tradition since the horse-drawn omnibus days.
Too, if a late passenger didn't have his fare ready upon boarding, he still had time to dig through his pockets to come up with the fare before the conductor came along, instead of now having to have the fare ready as soon as he boarded.
One-man double-deckers came to FACCo long before they arrived on LT property; in 1936, one-man "Queen Mary" types began running; it was not until the early/mid-1960's, however, that one-man double-deckers started becoming commonplace in London.
The last FACCo conductors vanished with the last of the open-top buses, in 1946.
In London, conductors faded into history with the retirement of the last "Routemasters" in 2005.......
"NYO"
["19-UPPER TOOTING VIA EMBANKMENT-BATTERSEA STN"]
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2439 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Of course, as I've mentioned previously, historic bus preservation in Great Britain far surpasses anything here; as with with railway preservation, bus preservation (though taking a setback during COVID lockdowns, these past few years) is an extensive and quite serious enterprise "across the pond"....... |
I do wonder if COVID was something of a death blow for bus preservation in this country in general, and NYC in particular. I do know now holiday trains are strictly postwar, with IRT Trains of Many Colors and (I.I.N.M.) IND R-32's. 'Arnines' hadn't run, that I know of, since 2019 - and I was on one of those last runs.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Of course, as I've mentioned previously, historic bus preservation in Great Britain far surpasses anything here; as with with railway preservation, bus preservation (though taking a setback during COVID lockdowns, these past few years) is an extensive and quite serious enterprise "across the pond"....... |
I do wonder if COVID was something of a death blow for bus preservation in this country in general, and NYC in particular. I do know now holiday trains are strictly postwar, with IRT Trains of Many Colors and (I.I.N.M.) IND R-32's. 'Arnines' hadn't run, that I know of, since 2019 - and I was on one of those last runs. |
W.B.:
I did not know about the prewar cars not running in holiday service; this is news to me.
Look at how many years it has been now since the vintage buses ran during the holidays.
GREYHOUND has sold off its historic bus collection (blasphemy, pure and simple)
Personally, between COVID's fallout and a choppy economic picture, I really don't see all that much of a bright light ahead in this country, regarding historic transit vehicle preservation.
Too, at trolley/rail museums, aging membership (with little "new blood" coming in) is also beginning to weigh heavily on restoration projects, and museum operations in general.
NOT a pretty picture, by ANY means......
"NYO"
["Sic Transit Gloria"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:57 am Post subject: |
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FACCo and the "Queen Mary" fleet.........
Am curious if FACCo purchased these buses solely to replace the oldest double-deckers in the fleet, or, simply, to increase the overall size of the fleet, while decreasing the number of conductors employed?
Also, on the "QM's" what type of fare boxes were employed....the time honored Johnsons, or other types?
One last inquiry; if one of the FACCo buses got a flat, obviously, this was not a job for a driver (and his conductor, if a flat occurred on an older bus)
I doubt these buses carried spares; it's obvious that some sort of hydraulic jack would have had to have been used (I'm thinking a wrecker or emergency vehicle would have come to the rescue; perhaps the Company's ancient wrecker #172?)
(Although, in the early 1940's "OUR GANG" comedy, "GOIN' FISHIN'", when the "open-topper" they are riding gets a flat, it's the driver and the conductor who change the flat themselves)......
"NYO"
["GO THE MOTOR COACH WAY"]
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 859 Location: Long Island
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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On the "QM's" what type of fare boxes were employed....the time honored Johnsons, or other types?
In my memory, the conductor roamed both decks, holding a small one-hand register to the passenger, who would insert a dime. The conductor would move a lever, you would hear a bell, and the dime would be stored in case the conductor needed more change.
In July, 1948, when other bus fares moved from five cents to seven or eight cents, I don't remember a Fifth Avenue new fare.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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N4 Jamaica wrote: | On the "QM's" what type of fare boxes were employed....the time honored Johnsons, or other types?
In my memory, the conductor roamed both decks, holding a small one-hand register to the passenger, who would insert a dime. The conductor would move a lever, you would hear a bell, and the dime would be stored in case the conductor needed more change.
In July, 1948, when other bus fares moved from five cents to seven or eight cents, I don't remember a Fifth Avenue new fare. |
Joe:
Growing up in the 1920's, my mother well recalled riding on the upper deck of the open-top buses.
She clearly remembered the conductor collecting fares this "little machine" as Mom referred to it.
In London, fares, fare zones, colored tickets, etc., were far and away more complicated than they were on FACCo; then again, unlike FACCo, London's double-deckers served all areas of the city, and even ventured out into the nearby suburbs.
It was even further complicated by the fact that the tram and trolleybus lines all used different fares, fares zones, and colored tickets than the buses.
Over the years, a number of ticket-machines were used by LT and its affiliates, including the "TIM", the "GIBSON"*, "BELL PUNCH" and the "SETRIGHT".
*(I have one of these in my collection)
FACCo must have been able to save $$$$$, when the last of the conductors were retired, in 1946.....
"NYO"
["19 RIVERSIDE DRIVE"]
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MaBSTOA 15
Age: 70 Joined: 27 Feb 2013 Posts: 1060
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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New York Omnibus 2629... the Fifth Avenue Coach "Queen Mary" (shown in the first photo) fleet were a one-man operation. No conductor roamed the bus collecting fares.
They used the modern, at that time, Johnson Model J fare box as seen in the following illustrations.
Note the middle photo shows a Chicago Motor Coach Yellow Coach bus, model 731.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:40 am Post subject: |
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FACCo's short-lived route #12.............
As we already know, this route only lasted a few short years (1924-1928)
In later years, what ST/"stoa" route came close to at least (in part) duplicating this long, long defunct FACCo route? (today's "Em-Tee-Yay"?)
"NYO"
["12 CONCOURSE"]
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2439 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:47 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | FACCo's short-lived route #12.............
As we already know, this route only lasted a few short years (1924-1928)
In later years, what ST/"stoa" route came close to at least (in part) duplicating this long, long defunct FACCo route? (today's "Em-Tee-Yay"?)
"NYO"
["12 CONCOURSE"] |
After 1928, that route was taken over by Surface Transportation System (which had sued to obtain an injunction against FACCo for muscling in on their turf, and had been granted exclusive rights to provide bus service to "da Bronx"), which promptly renamed it the Bx-1. It was, and is, the Concourse-138th Street line. (FACCo operated, in the same 1924-28 stretch, another Bronx route, #14, which under STS - and later under Surface Transit and " 'stoa" - became the Bx-2 Concourse-Hub line.) Prior to FACCo getting its mitts on those two routes, they'd been operated since their July 3, 1921 startup by an entity called Concourse Bus Lines.
That there was this spat in 1928, made the acquisition of STS by Fifth Avenue Coach Lines towards the end of 1956 (and its reorganization as ST) all the more ironic.
So there's your answer as to what that became.
The only question: What would have been FACCo Route #13?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:15 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Once again, I greatly appreciate your detailed, "in depth" historical info.
It is also interesting to remember, that, prior to the opening of the "Eye-En-Dee" 8th Avenue line in the early 1930's, the "Eye-Are-Tee" was the only rapid transit link to "da Bronx" (subway and elevated)
Of course, there were also electric commuter rail connections available, including the NYW&B.
Of course, TARS had a firm stronghold in "da Bronx" back then; recall, also, that ST once operated six-wheel double-deckers, which were later rebuilt into single-deck buses..................
"NYO"
["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22792 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thoughts on SURFACE and "stoa"............
When the last buses that were painted and lettered for "SURFACE" were retired, IMHO, a distinct sense of "familiarity" also disappeared in "da Bronx".
SURFACE buses were, for many years, very much a part of daily life in "da Bronx", as were the TARS streetcars before them.
When "stoa" took the helm, though the buses originally carried the distinctive "OA"insignias, they were painted in the "Tee-Yay's" then-current green; the individuality of the "SURFACE" era was now relegated to history.
SURFACE was much like the postwar "Bee-oh-Tee" and the early "Tee-Yay", purchasing both "Shermans" and "Pattons" for many years, alternating orders.
Had SURFACE remained an "indy" company, I can easily see them placing orders for "Dangerfields"..........
"NYO"
["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"]
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2439 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Had SURFACE remained an "indy" company, I can easily see them placing orders for "Dangerfields"..........
"NYO"
["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"] |
Surface was no longer "indy" after late 1956 when Fifth Avenue Coach Lines acquired it; but still, they likely would have ordered "Dangerfields" for, say, "da Bronx" had not that 1962 strike intervened (and by some reports, by the time of that strike, Surface was doing somewhat better financially than its parent), while staying with Fishbowls for Manhattan. Or maybe they would've alternated as they had when it was between "Shermans" and "Pattons." Who knows at this point.
But Surface's individual identity was already gone with the wind after the FACL acquisition. Their last buses (3000-3009 "Pattons" and 3020-3059 "Shermans") had the same green/cream paint scheme (and design) as the FACL "Shermans" 2605-2694 (not to mention that protruding front sign box). The ST "Shermans" were the next-to-last TDH-5106's "Gee-Em" ever built; FACL's (2645-2694) were the very last. After that it was Fishbowl time.
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