BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

In this 1981 photo (depicting a MaBSTOA Fishbowl), note the old gabled building on the right, housing shops.

Until 1937, this building served as the NYW&B's Hunts Point station house, which featured a spacious and elegant waiting room.

Beneath the station building, the NYW&B utilized two of the NH's six tracks........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155724

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["SAVE TIME-SAVE MONEY-RIDE THE "WESTCHESTER"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

By the 1950's, the old open-platform "El" cars used on the Dyre Avenue shuttle (in service on this line since it opened in 1941) had been replaced by equally-ancient steel Hi-V subway cars.

Here is one of the Hi-V trains, at the shuttle platform at E. 180th St..

The former NYW&B headhouse looms on the right......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45177

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["IRT LINES"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

In this circa-1954 photo, we see a two car Dyre Avenue shuttle train (Hi-V's) crossing the former NYW&B bridge at Boston Post Road.

Look closely a bit left of center, and you will see a bracket mounted to the side of the bridge; this originally was a support for one of the NYW&B's catenary towers...............

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6872

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["INTERBOROUGH LINES"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here are two long-ago scenes taken at the Pelham Parkway station (Dyre Avenue line), showing wooden El cars and Hi-V's.

Note how the 1912-NYW&B station house has changed little since the railroad stopped running; even today, the station still appears much as it did, many decades ago..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?27924

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26659

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["I.R.T."]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here is a modern-day view of the Pelham Parkway station, with a train of modern NTT cars at the platform.

Think of the many types of rolling stock that have rolled through this station, from big green NYW&B MU's, to wooden El cars, steel subway cars, to modern, NTT rolling stock, well over 100 years after the station first opened......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?129566

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["MTA"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The "Westchester" , at its short-lived peak, was a ultra-modern, hi-tech (for 1912), well-built, heavy-duty electric railroad, with grand and opulent mansions for stations.

Even during the lean Depression years, rush-hour trains were still quite lengthy........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?18931

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["RIDE THE WESTCHESTER-SAVE TIME & PARKING"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

I have long thought about what the subways of New York would be like today, had the original INTERBROUGH been built to the same dimensions as the later BRT/BMT and IND.

Clearly, there would have been much more operational flexibility within the four boroughs, had all lines been built to the same specifications.

Certainly, the jam-packed East and West Side IRT lines would have greatly benefited from have longer, wider rolling stock.

As the INTERBOROUGH snaked its way deeper into the boroughs, larger-sized rolling stock would have enabled the lines to carry more passengers in trains of shorter length, than lines using the shorter, narrower INTERBOROUGH equipment.

Think of rapid transit cars built to the overall dimensions of the A-B "Standards", perhaps even supplementing LIRR trains in some areas, giving the subway a far greater range.

Interestingly, recall that the LIRR's original MU's (MP-41's) were virtually identical to the original INTERBOROUGH cars; the main differences were that the subway equipment, of course, lacked vestibule traps (and steps) and large headlights.

The LIRR's MP-41's, technically speaking, could have given Long Island residents a one-seat ride into lower Manhattan (and, perhaps, beyond) had LIRR trains been able to operate along the INTERBOROUGH.

Even by 1910, the MP-41 design was "obsolete", with the arrival of the first of the massive MP-54 fleet, which served generations of LIRR's "Dashing Dans" until the early 1970's.

Of course, Class One railroad involvement with urban rapid transit was not unheard of; recall, between 1911 and 1967, the "joint service" operation of the PRR and H&M (later PATH), running between Newark and Hudson Terminal, in downtown Manhattan.....

"NYO"

["I.R.T. LINES"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Compare one of the INTERBOROUGH's original cars with the LIRR's MP-41's.........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?138710

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?67835

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["INTERBOROUGH RAPID TRANSIT"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Thoughts on the "SAS"..........

One can only wonder what the Second Avenue Subway would be like today in 2023, had the line been built and opened when the 3rd Avenue El in Manhattan was closed in 1955.

How far would the SAS have reached?

Deeper into the Bronx, perhaps even as far north as the Westchester border?

Too, consider service into Queens.

Extending the SAS into Brooklyn would have been quite a formidable task, from an engineering standpoint, given the complex, sinewy ganglia of subway lines in the downtown area.

Recall, the new BUDD R-11 cars were to be the prototype for the new fleet of cars that were to serve the SAS, had it been built in the immediate postwar period..........

"NYO"

["BUDD"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an excellent, "in depth" article on the SAS, with historical data, future plans, maps, and photos.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway

["R-11"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Speaking of the SAS:

Much in the news the past couple of days (and no wonder!) that the long-awaited extension of the SAS is now underway; it will take about a decade to complete (look at all the time that has been lost, over the past several decades!)

Last evening (at 11), Eyewitness News reporter Josh Eineger did an excellent "on the spot" report on this long-awaited happening, walking through the tunnels that were built decades ago, before funding ran out, and the SAS system lay dormant.

In Stan Fischler's excellent book: "THE SUBWAY"(1997), he includes comments on the SAS in his chapter on the IND.

The original tunnel construction, left dormant for decades, cost nearly a whopping $47,000,000 (and this was a section not even three miles in length!)

Mayor Lindsay and then-governor Rockefeller launched the SAS project in 1972, at 2nd Avenue and 103rd St.

Three other sections were built:

110th-120th streets

2nd to 9th Streets

Canal Street (at the Manhattan Bridge)

In 1974, Mayor Beame broke ground for another section.

Original plans called for the first phase of the SAS to be completed in 1986; in 1977, Beame stuck a dagger into the ambitious project, by leaving construction out of a six-year transit program, thereby sealing the unused tunnels in more ways then one.

Let us now see what the next decade brings............

"NYO"

["INDEPENDENT SUBWAY SYSTEM"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an interesting, detailed article, with a great deal of fascinating history.........

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway:_The_Line_That_Almost_Never_Was

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Where have the years gone?

20 years ago, on November 3rd, the very last train of "Redbirds" ran on the #7 Flushing line (these were the WF "Bluebirds", which entered service in late 1963 and 1964, and had been originally known as "Bluebirds")

Also, on this same date (in 1969), the last train of prewar IRT cars made their final runs on the Bronx 3rd Avenue El (R-12's replaced the remaining prewar IRT cars on this line)........

"NYO"

["I.R.T. LINES"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

here is an interesting little "blurb" from Rodger Arcara's excellent book, "WESTCHESTER'S FORGOTTEN RAILWAY", used as part of a caption describing a photo of the stately ex-NYW&B station headhouse at E. 180th Street (today the entrance to the present-day IRT station)...........

".........its own platforms, now unused by trains, may someday be put into service again, if the proposed Second Avenue Subway is ever built, and extended to connect with the Dyre Avenue line..........."

I doubt very much indeed that such a grandoise plan will ever see the light of day; however, the larger "B"-Division cars used on today's Second Avenue "stubway" would be more "in sync" with the commodious MU's once used by the "Westchester"...........

"NYO"

["NYW&B"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an interesting bit of trivia:

When the City took over the NYW&B's line in the Bronx, and re-opened it as the Dyre Avenue line in 1941, it was quite a "conglomerate", in many ways.

Firstly, the equipment used were old INTERBOROUGH elevated gate cars.

Secondly, the signals were surplus from the BMT.

And third, the line was operated as a part of the IND system!

Though local residents were indeed quite pleased on having rail service again, the antiquated wooden elevated cars were quite a "come down", if you will, from the "Westchester's" big steel MU's.

These old relics served into the early 1950's, when they were replaced by elderly steel "Hi-V" subway cars; the Dyre Avenue line, as you know, was tied into the IRT "mainlines" in 1957, allowing for through service to Brooklyn.

Interesting too, that, had the NYW&B survived, plans were drawn up for the new equipment (articulated trainsets) built by BUDD.

At that time, the only BUDD-built rapid transit equipment in use was the BMT's articulated "Zephyr".

Ahhhh, what might have been............

"NYO"

["BUDD"]