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161st St., 1964/Along 3rd Avenue/Da Bronx
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22290
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

THANK YOU for sharing that MAGNIFICENT photo; a REAL bus, and NOT a milk carton, shoe box, or slithering caterpillar!!!! Wink

Imagine , today, an Old Look AND a MACK, preserved, wearing this truly beautiful paint scheme?

WOW!!!! Shocked

I always thought that "buses with the sign that sticks out in front" had a far too short lifespan; at the very least, I wish one of my local "Joisey" indie companies had picked up a few, given them a new lease on life, and given me a chance to know them better as a teen and, perhaps, a young adult.

I really liked those distinctive buses, and I value the memories of Mom and I riding them, now and then, way back when Your's Truly was just a young lad in grade school...... Rolling Eyes

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare the paint schemes of these SURFACE Macks........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154548

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154549

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The red and cream Surface paint scheme pretty much went out the window once FACL took them over, and their green and cream scheme began to infest more and more of the exteriors of their rolling stock. But notice - that older Mack said "Go The Motor Coach Way" on the top instead of "Ride The Surface Way." Hmmm . . .
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
The red and cream Surface paint scheme pretty much went out the window once FACL took them over, and their green and cream scheme began to infest more and more of the exteriors of their rolling stock. But notice - that older Mack said "Go The Motor Coach Way" on the top instead of "Ride The Surface Way." Hmmm . . .


W.B.:

I noticed that, too,

This I found interesting; the "beginning of the end", so to speak, for ST's separate identity?

Certainly, back in the day, no one could mistake an ST bus for one operated by FACCo.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.................................in these two (now so very dated) latter-day views, note, here, how bare the area now is above the standee windows is, without any sort of stylish, fancy script ("RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"/"GO THE MOTOR COACH WAY")........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154547

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156387

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["GO THE MOTOR COACH WAY"]
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 70
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mack in this photo has the "Go the Motor Coach Way" because it is one of twenty-five former Fifth Avenue Coach Mack model C-50DT that were transferred to Surface Transit in 1958 and renumbered. In this case number 4078 is the former 2496.

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154549
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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an unusual Mack model C-49DT of the New York City Transit Authority.

What makes it unusual is the windows, identical to the windows used on the BoT Mack model C-50DT. I wonder if they had the same "S" seats??



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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15:

Appreciate the info on that MACK* with "GO THE MOTOR COACH WAY" over the windows; that's ONE "mystery" solved! Wink

The 1960's photo of the MACK you posted sure brings back a lot of great memories; NHBL, which ran past our old apartment building when I was growing up in Union City, rostered several models of MACKS, as well as Old Looks and WHITES! Very Happy

In the 1954 children's book "BIG CITY TRANSPORTATION" (part of the "Big City" series), there is an interior photo of a MACK; text describes this bus thus:

"......Brooklyn has some buses with a new kind of seat. Do you see what is different about them? People can get out of the seats more easily. The windows open easily, too......."

The seats are of the "S"-type you mentioned; the florescent lighting suggests that this bus was a "Bingham" MACK.

I recommend this great little book to any transit buff that's interested in old "Noo Yawk" transit operations; there's a few timeless ST and FACCo photos, and a number of nostalgic subway photos.

Also, a few excellent photos of the old "Port-Of-Authority", back in the days when suburban MACKS and ACF-BRILLS were still a part of the show.......Wink

"NYO"

*As Mom and I took many day trips to Staten Island back in the 60's, first and foremost, MACKS come to mind when recalling all of the hustle and bustle at the St. George ferry terminal........aaah, I can still hear the agressive growls and snorts emitted by these tough ol' road warriors today...... Very Happy
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random thoughts......

It's a given, of course, that we all loved the Fishbowl, a bus whose startling new design was indeed "in sync" with the "Space Age" 1960's.

But, as much as we all loved the now-iconic Fishbowl, it's appearance on the streets was sort of a harbinger of things to come, to those bus enthusiasts of that era, who set tremendous store with the Old Looks, MACKS, WHITES, ACF-BRILLS, and other vintage buses then still commonplace.

In my area of Hudson County, the first NHBL Fishbowls began arriving around late 1966/1967.

Sure, I loved them, but, at the same time, I was seeing less and less of the old workhorse that had infatuated me since before my first year on this planet were up (this, according to Mom!)

The WHITES and the MACKS were the first to go; as the 70's progressed, the remaining Old Looks were indeed minorities in the NHBL fleet.

Even more Old Looks (in Hudson County) disappeared about 1976/1977 when the tremendous influx of new NJDOT "Dangerfield" Flexies was taking hold.

After that, the few remaining Old Looks only "came out to play" during the rush hours; the sight of a "Boulevard" Old Look in the mid-afternoon was a sure sign that another rush hour was in the offing.

Then, when ex-MTA "Borough Bombers" were purchased by Hudson County "indies",even the once-commonplace Fishbowl began to become a novelty.

I have not ridden on a MACK, WHITE, or ACF-BRILL in well over 50 years now; the last Fishbowl I rode was back in 1997.

The last Old Look I rode was in 1986.

Where have the years gone?

Then, the ever-present "Dangerfields" themselves began vanishing; when the last RTS vanished, IMHO, it also drew the curtain down forever on the era of the "classic" bus in the greater NY/NJ area.

How much we took for granted!

When I think back to my childhood, especially during the early/mid-1960's, and remember both pre-and postwar buses of so many makes and models, and snorting and rumbling along the streets in their colorful paint schemes, it, at once, seems both 100 years ago, and, oddly enough, only yesterday.

Too much changed too fast for Your's Truly; it is no wonder I indeed cherish and treasure the wonderful memories of that long-ago, far more innocent time.......

"NYO"

["1 JOURNAL SQUARE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A word on historic bus preservation.....

I was looking at online photos earlier of the CTA's 75th anniversary celebration; a number of vintage "L"/subway trains "came out to play", including the famed 4000's of the 1920's, and the iconic 6000's of the 1960's.

There were some nicely-restored historic CTA buses on exhibit as well (oddly enough, no Old Looks) Sad

There were, also, two postwar TWINS (including the one fitted with a "New Look" front, a couple of Fishbowls, and a "Dangerfield", painted in the classic CTA scheme of the 1960's.....a VERY NICE-looking bus, indeed! Wink

Well into the 1960's, the CTA was still operating quite a diverse fleet of older buses, including square-window Old Looks, WHITES, MACKS, and ACF-BRILLS.

Interesting, too, to note that, at its peak, Chicago also had the largest trolleybus fleet in the United States; the last electric coaches pulled down their poles for the last time in 1973...........

"NYO"

["Chicago Transit Authority"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
A word on historic bus preservation.....

I was looking at online photos earlier of the CTA's 75th anniversary celebration; a number of vintage "L"/subway trains "came out to play", including the famed 4000's of the 1920's, and the iconic 6000's of the 1960's.

There were some nicely-restored historic CTA buses on exhibit as well (oddly enough, no Old Looks) Sad

There were, also, two postwar TWINS (including the one fitted with a "New Look" front, a couple of Fishbowls, and a "Dangerfield", painted in the classic CTA scheme of the 1960's.....a VERY NICE-looking bus, indeed! Wink

Well into the 1960's, the CTA was still operating quite a diverse fleet of older buses, including square-window Old Looks, WHITES, MACKS, and ACF-BRILLS.

Interesting, too, to note that, at its peak, Chicago also had the largest trolleybus fleet in the United States; the last electric coaches pulled down their poles for the last time in 1973...........

"NYO"

["Chicago Transit Authority"]

It did seem that compared with Chicago, 'Noo Yawk' had an allergy to anything "old" - an allergy dating back to the days of the "Little Flower," La Guardia. Given that the old TARS fleet ended up serving overseas, for example. That the Windy City's trolleybuses lasted in service 13 years after the last of those ran in Brooklyn, NY, as another case . . . and of course, Chicago's 'L's compared with the old Manhattan els. In the preservation department, seems they're one up on us, in relation.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Agreed 100%; I've had this same view for many years, myself.

The CTA indeed seems to be "one up" on "Noo Yawk", as you said, regarding "old" aspects of public transit, especially the Els (like NYC, there are indeed "L" lines that are long, long gone; virtually all historic downtown Chicago rail hubs, sadly, have met the same sad fate as our old Penn station) Sad

Yes, "Noo Yawk" indeed does seem to have an acute "allergy" to the old and the historic, transit-wise, outside of what's affiliated with the NYCTM.

Imagine if the old Manhattan elevated lines were still with us today (last vestige, the Bronx 3rd Avenue line, abandoned in 1973); ditto the the BMT network out of Park Row, and spreading out in different directions once Sands Street was reached?

Bus-wise, I have also long thought of a historic bus collection solely devoted to FACCo/SURFACE/MaBSTOA.

Look at just how precious little remains today of what was, next to London, the world's most famous double-decker bus operation; too, who, except bus historians, know that the FACCo was the FIRST motor-bus operation in New York City, regarding a large fleet and several routes?

I always thought it odd that the BoT, at a time when the streetcars were soon to be history, purchased a new fleet of trolley buses INSTEAD of new diesels, for Brooklyn.

These silent, modern vehicles were barely in service a little more than a decade, when they were all retired and slated for scrap (of course, NOT ONE was preserved)

Of course, realistically speaking, we most certainly CANNOT save EVERYTHING......BUT, indeed, we certainly COULD have preserved a LOT more than what WAS saved.......

"NYO"

["Sic Transit Gloria"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Check this out:

https://thetrolleydodger.com/2021/06/30/chicagos-lost-ls/

Some really interesting photos* here; be sure to note several old photos, with CTA buses in the scene!) Wink

*Note how the wooden "L" cars were, for the most part, virtually identical to those used in "Noo Yawk", way, way back in the day! Wink

With interurban trains of the CA&E and NORTH SHORE sharing the rails with the "L" trains, transit buffs of that era indeed had MUCH to keep their ol' Kodaks snappin' away! Very Happy

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSL/CTA postwar PCC's were indeed both BIG and imposing; note the three sets of doors......conductors, at one time, served aboard these sleek, modern postwar cars.

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?46019

Sadly, unlike Brooklyn's PCC fleet, most of these cars were scrapped BEFORE the last few cars ran in 1958 (a number of postwar CTA "L" cars utilized recycled parts from these unwanted PCC's)

I've seen photos of these cars, only a few years old, heaped upon one another in scrapyards.....what a WASTE!!!) Crying or Very sad

Oddly, no Mexican, South American, or European systems were interested in these still-like-new streetcars...... Sad

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, unlike "Noo Yawk", for a number of years, postwar rapid transit cars in Chicago utilized "blinker" doors, more remeniscent of doors found on a transit bus or a streetcar, which made for some interesting-looking rolling stock...... Wink

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14642

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14344

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["RAVENSWOOD"]
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