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MaBSTOA T6H-5309A (and El replacement buses)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 55
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 1589
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Grand Concourse & Fordham, 1976......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155536

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["Bx1 Grand Concourse"]

When all fresh and new . . . buses from that order were scattered amongst depots in both Manhattan and 'da Bronx', thus even 'tony' areas like Fifth Avenue saw these type buses pass through - and attain a modicum of respect earlier orders (up to the 1969-70 A/C set) didn't (I say this because of the 1973-74 order which all went up to Pier 57 when not "in motion," even with the last seven of that '69-'70 order transferred to Hudson in later '74 to earn their stripes on the streets of Manhattan).
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I've read that Vivian Vance (Ethel Mertz on "I Love Lucy") and her publisher husband maintained an apartment on "upper 5th Avenue" to at least 1970.

They would have seen FACL and MaBSTOA buses passing by their door.

Lucille Ball, after her divorce from Desi, maintained a high-rise apartment on Lexington Avenue (the Imperial House, on 69th St.); this would have put her right atop the IRT Lexington Avenue East Side line (recall, the "Lex" figured prominently in the classic 1957 "Lucy" episode, "Lucy & The Loving Cup".

Recall, also, The Ricardo's fictitious address "623 E. 68th St."(!) Wink

In one "Lucy" episode, Ricky talked about the difference between Fifth Avenue buses:

"...one's a 'lakahl" and the other one's a " 'spress"....... Laughing

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 55
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 1589
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Lucille Ball, after her divorce from Desi, maintained a high-rise apartment on Lexington Avenue (the Imperial House, on 69th St.); this would have put her right atop the IRT Lexington Avenue East Side line (recall, the "Lex" figured prominently in the classic 1957 "Lucy" episode, "Lucy & The Loving Cup".

That time Ms. Ball lived in Manhattan would have been while she was appearing on Broadway in the musical Wildcat. It would have also put her square into the soon-to-be ex-Surface Transit (ST) M-101 line which, after 1960, traveled along Lex southbound.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

You've got it; Lucy was then appearing in "Wildcat"; this was, of course, after both "I Love Lucy" and "The Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour".

I always thought it ironic that, in the "Lucy" episode where Lucy's eccentric and wonderfully ditzy mom ("Mrs. McGillicuddy") arrives prior to the Ricardos and the Mertzes leaving for Hollywood, and says: "the bus dropped me off right at the door".

Lucy: "Wait a minute, Mother, the bus doesn't come down this street."

Fast-forward several years to the classic "Lucy Meets Superman" episode (1957), where we see Lucy out on the third floor ledge "masquerading" as The Man Of Steel; when she looks down (stock footage used here) we see an Old Look stopping right downstairs! Shocked

(guess a route change had taken place since Mrs. McGillicuddy's visit, several years back!) Laughing Wink

"NYO"

["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:08 pm; edited 5 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a still from the "Lucy Meets Superman" episode, showing the aforementined Old Look.......

https://pics.imcdb.org/11730/vlcsnap-2013-04-18-14h38m00s62.jpg
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And...while on "I Love Lucy", the 1957 episode "LUCY & THE LOVING CUP" has Lucy and Ethel aboard a downtown IRT Lexington Avenue train, heading for Bleeker St.

The car interior was clearly a melange of IND "Arnine" and BMT "Standard", and the destination sign boxes were nothing like those used in New York; however, the overall "feel" was authentic "Noo Yawk".

Stock footage included "Arnines" on the "AA" (used in "PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET", and, also, the classic Superman episode "A SHOT IN THE DARK")

There were also stock footage clips of Lo-V's and R-12/14's (this last clip had the film negative backwards!) Rolling Eyes

Oddly, no BMT footage was used for this episode.......

"NYO"

["LEXINGTON AVENUE LOCAL"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...........am curious to learn if the very earliest "Noo Yawk" Fishbowls ("Tee-Yay"/FACL/ST) had upholstered seating when new, or were they equipped with plastic/fiberglass seating as delivered?

I know that the "Tee-Yay" subway cars were being delivered with "hard seats" beginning in the late 1950's (if I am correct, the last subway cars to be delivered with upholstered seating were the BMT R-16's and the IRT R-17's)

Appreciate info....

"NYO"

["NYCTA"]
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2097
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My memory is not that sharp, but IIRC, the last of the TA "Old Looks" came with the hard seats. With the rear seats in a semi-circle, and the push to open rear door. On the other hand, Queens Transit definitely had upholstered seats in their first Fishbowls...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
My memory is not that sharp, but IIRC, the last of the TA "Old Looks" came with the hard seats. With the rear seats in a semi-circle, and the push to open rear door. On the other hand, Queens Transit definitely had upholstered seats in their first Fishbowls...


traildriver":

You're on the right track! Wink

Actually, it was the last two orders of "Tee-Yay" Old Looks (7000-7208) and (9000-9120) that had fiberglass seats; the MACK C-49's (6000 series) originally had upholstered seats; due to increased vandalism, these buses were later re-furnished with plastic seating.

Interestingly, the Brooklyn MACKS now sported green seating, while those in Staten Island had pink.......

"NYO"

Source: NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM BUS AND TROLLEY COACH FLEET" (Greller)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 55
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 1589
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
...........am curious to learn if the very earliest "Noo Yawk" Fishbowls ("Tee-Yay"/FACL/ST) had upholstered seating when new, or were they equipped with plastic/fiberglass seating as delivered?

I know that the "Tee-Yay" subway cars were being delivered with "hard seats" beginning in the late 1950's (if I am correct, the last subway cars to be delivered with upholstered seating were the BMT R-16's and the IRT R-17's)

Appreciate info....

"NYO"

["NYCTA"]

The FACL/ST Fishbowl seating was certainly upholstered at the outset, contrasting wildly with 'Tee-Yay' practice. Once all FACL and ST routes were taken over by MaBSTOA, though . . .

As for last upholstered seating on subway cars, I thought it was R21 and R22, but the last of the latter had hard fiberglass seating as an experiment before they began it in full on R26 and R28 cars.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Ahh, I see I was leaning in the right direction, regarding the original seating on the FACL/ST Fishbowls.

Recall, too, the R10/12/14's.....these cars were the very last to sport anything close to "true" rattan (these seats had the narrow green stripes in the material)

Here in "Joisey", any older buses that had upholstered seating when new retained them throughout their service lives.

However, I DO recall a number of Fishbowls having plastic seating....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Tee-Yay" era fiberglass seating.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155306

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155936

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155935 *

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY"]

*This photo shows the upholstered "U"-contoured seating in restored Old Look #3100 for contrast.......


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fiberglass seating underground, "Tee-Yay" era (R-22/R-30)......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3317

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4679

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["LEXINGTON AVE EXP"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

........one group of Fishbowls that i can clearly remember carrying upholstered seating up until retirement were the ex-PSNJ/TNJ Z-300 series.

I rode these buses for many years (through the 1980's), and, after I began working in lower Manhattan in early 1979, virtually every day for long periods.

Too, I also recall plastic (pink) seating in the ex-ORANGE & BLACK "semi-suburban" Fishbowls; plastic seating was also common on many NHBL Fishbowls.

Strange, that (depending on routes used) METROS* had both hard plastic and upholstered (high back) seating.

NJT's articulateds through the years also had both hard and soft seating; MCI's, of course, have always had upholstered seating.

It would seem that (at least to me) that the "comfort factor" was (and still is) important on the "suburban" commuter runs.

*Way, way ack in my commuting days, I remember ACADEMY's #3200-series METROS having high-back, upholstered seating (on the "BOULEVARD EAST" rush-hour only runs) while those on the "#22 HILLSIDE" had hard seating.......

"NYO"

["22 HILLSIDE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 17645
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....seriously, it is VERY sobering, indeed, when one remembers that upholstered seating was "standard" in public transit vehicles for many decades (this, of course, does not include those streetcars and elevated cars that had wooden seats for their entire service lives), and then, one sad day, crime and vandalism became so rampant, commonplace that such comfortable seating had to disappear. Sad

Who's in charge, here, anyway? Sad

"NYO"
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