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South, East, and all around the town.......
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Just came across this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Steamboat_Company *

*At one time, these boats also sailed to Long Branch, NJ, and to Rockaway Beach; also, read of the daily sailings up the Hudson, to where the Company had built a hotel over a railroad tunnel (north of Croton-On-Hudson)...........


What goes around, comes around department... Wink

https://www.ferry.nyc/routes-and-schedules/route/rockaway/

The modern ferry is faster than taking the subway from Wall Street to Rockaway Park, and the fare is the same... Cool
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Thanks for the link; I had, in all honesty, totally forgotten about this operation! Wink

Interestingly, when the NYCRR abandoned its trans-Hudson ferries in March, 1959, while still running the trains to a now deserted Weehawken terminal*), a West Shore Commuters Association (I believe it was called) had plans to purchase an old Navy PT boat, and convert it into a "ferry", operating from some point north of New York City.

Needless to say, this grandoise plan went nowhere; the West Shore trains finally stopped running in late 1959, after months of running virtually empty into the shuttered, echoing Weehawken terminal, its ferry slips silent and devoid of boats..

There were also talks that involved the Hudson River Day Line taking over the old West Shore ferry operation, but, this, also, proved far too expensive a venture......

"NYO"

*Recall, too, that Weehawken terminal had no connections to the H&M tubes, as did the DL&W, ERIE, and PRR terminals downriver.

The CNJ's steepled and gabled Jersey City terminal (closed 1967), like Weehawken, also had no H&M connection, and, like the West Shore operation, was totally dependent on the ferryboats for Manhattan connections.

["The Water Level Route"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of the old El lines......

Recall, only wooden equipment ran on the Manhattan Els; the spindly structures were not built to carry the heavier steel subway cars that began arriving prior to 1910.

Interesting, though, how only wooden "El" equipment ran on the Manhattan portion of the venerable 3rd Avenue El, while the Bronx portion (closed 1973), on the other hand, saw the use of steel subway cars (prewar IRT cars and, lastly, postwar R-12/R-14's)

I've read over the years that the "Tee-Yay" had designs for lightweight modern cars for use on the Myrtle Avenue El, had it not been decided to close it in 1969.

From what I gathered, these might have been similar to old "Almond Joy" Market-Frankford cars, built by BUDD about 1960.

Recall, only "conventional" El equipment could run over the might Brooklyn Bridge; there had been talk, prior to 1920, of hooking up the Bridge trackage to a new subway connection (this was the BRT at the time), but, to operate the heavy steel "Standards" over the span, would have required much extensive (and expensive) re-enforcement of the bridge's superstructure.

The last El trains ran over the BB in 1944; after the El trains stopped running, the B&QT streetcars were shifted over to the former El tracks, to allow for the addition of an additional vehicular lane.

The last streetcars over the Bridge ran in 1950.......

"NYO"

["67 Seventh-Park Row"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to contemplate wooden cars running in the subways; recall, after the deadly and infamous Malbone St, wreck of 1918, wooden equipment was then banned from subway use.

The IRT "Composites" were removed from subway service, and, after some renovation/upgrading, the cars were relegated to El use only (2nd and 3rd Avenue lines), as well as shuttles in the Bronx area.

Too, originally, these cars did not have center doors.

These cars (sadly, none were preserved) were retired about 1950.

Remember, too, early on, wooden equipment also operated to the new BRT terminal at Chambers St., at the time the new "A-B" Standards were beginning to arrive.......

"NYO"

["10-Myrtle-Chambers Lcl"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On this day in 1950, the very last of the old IRT "Composites" were retired; removed from subway service in 1916 (two years before the infamous Malbone St. wreck) they were relegated to El service on the 2nd and 3rd Avenue lines.

Ironically, on this same day in 1973, the Bronx portion of the 3rd Avenue El closes; prewar IRT cars served this line until 1969, when they were replaced with R-12/14-types*.

The venerable old "Composites" were replaced on the Manhattan section of the 3rd Avenue El by modified BMT "Q" cars; the "Q"'s had their heavier BMT trucks swapped out for lighter trucks salvaged from the scrapped "Composites"......

"NYO"

*Interestingly, two of the cars used in the last 3rd Avenue train in 1973 train still survive today; one car has been restored for the "Train of Many Colors", while its sister is presently stored at the 207th St. yards..........

["Shuttle-Gun Hill Rd."]
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I beg to differ about the last run for the composites. Sunday, June 25, 1950, I was about to graduate from the parish school of St. John on Kingsbridge Avenue. The ceremony was late in the day, maybe 6 p.m. In the morning, before or after Mass, Dad and I stood on the Nereid Avenue platform awaiting a special train of the composites leaving the yard and heading south. I was ready with an 8mm Keystone camera that was bought used from a store on 32nd Street. The film was processed in a few days, and the frames were jumpy, the fault in the device that caught the sprockets.
---
The same day (recall time zones) North Korea invaded South Korea.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
I beg to differ about the last run for the composites. Sunday, June 25, 1950, I was about to graduate from the parish school of St. John on Kingsbridge Avenue. The ceremony was late in the day, maybe 6 p.m. In the morning, before or after Mass, Dad and I stood on the Nereid Avenue platform awaiting a special train of the composites leaving the yard and heading south. I was ready with an 8mm Keystone camera that was bought used from a store on 32nd Street. The film was processed in a few days, and the frames were jumpy, the fault in the device that caught the sprockets.
---
The same day (recall time zones) North Korea invaded South Korea.


Joe:

Thanks for the correction; that was the information I had read earlier.

I've read that, even with the lighter trucks salvaged from the old Composites, the ex-BMT "Q" cars were still heavier than the Composites.

The following is from "UNDER THE SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK" (Brian Cudahy)........

".......although the Q's were originally 'El' cars themselves, their 1938 rebuilding had upped their gross tonnage to more than the sinewy el could handle. The solution? Discard the original BMT trucks and remount their bodies onto the trucks made available when the Composites were retired......"

".......however, even with the salvaged lighter trucks, the "q" cars were still "heavyweights", and authorized to carry passengers only while running on the center (express) track of the three-track 3rd Avenue El....."

"......the cars had to deadhead in one direction, and were run only during the rush hours; base service was provided by the MUDC cars, which had originally been open platform vehicles themselves, before being rebuilt with vestibules and sliding doors....."

"NYO"

["Third Avenue Elevated"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a train of "Q" cars at 204th St., 1954 (note the train is on the center express track)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75748

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farewell to the 3rd Avenue El in Manhattan, 1955........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75739

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A train of elderly, battled-scared Composites is seen here at Willis Avenue, on the Willis Avenue/133rd St. spur......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?94802

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2nd Avenue El (last trains ran in 1942) was the only Manhattan El to cross the East River into Queens.

Gate cars and MUDC's provided the service.

When El service over the Queensboro Bridge began, the tracks ran down the center roadway; in later years, however, as motor traffic increased, the El tracks were shifted over to one side of the roadway.

For decades afterwards, at Queensboro Plaza, the disconnected tracks of the old 2nd Avenue El were in plain sight to anyone with an eye for transit history.......

"NYO"

["Ride The Open Air Elevated"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two early 1940's views of 2nd Avenue "MUDC" trains crossing the QB.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75595 (note TARS streetcar at far right)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45986

["Ride The Open Air Elevated"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A train of "Composites" (2nd Avenue El) at 92nd St......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17417

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["There's More Room On The El"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1964, we see a train of shiny new R-36 World's Fair "Bluebirds" entering Queensboro Plaza; just to the right of the train can be seen the disconnected 2nd Avenue Elevated tracks, that once carried trains over the Queensboro Bridge.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4393

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["Follow The Blue Arrow To The World's Fair"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a detailed page on the the Second Avenue El......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRT_Second_Avenue_Line

Another page on the 3rd Avenue El.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRT_Third_Avenue_Line
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