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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:32 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Good points.
This is now making me think of the fuel consumption of a SCENICRUISER vs a 4104.
In "Noo Yawk" (and other cities); it would be also interesting to learn just where WHITES, MACKS, and ACF-BRILLS were, regarding fuel consumption (gas or diesel)
I've always thought (and this was always mere speculation on the part of Your's Truly) that a MACK was more "thirsty", on average, than a GM-built bus.......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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........though I am in no way an "enlightened man" regarding any stats regarding the fuel consumption of different types of buses, it would seem to me that a fully-loaded "Queen Mary" would be consuming at least twice the amount of fuel consumed by an Old Look carrying a full load of passengers.
I'm wondering just how much in fuel costs FACCo saved, after replacing the last double-deckers with single-deck buses......
"NYO" |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2465 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | ........though I am in no way an "enlightened man" regarding any stats regarding the fuel consumption of different types of buses, it would seem to me that a fully-loaded "Queen Mary" would be consuming at least twice the amount of fuel consumed by an Old Look carrying a full load of passengers.
I'm wondering just how much in fuel costs FACCo saved, after replacing the last double-deckers with single-deck buses......
"NYO" |
The fuel issue may have as much been a factor as labor costs in ultimately ditching the double-deckers, both with the "open-tops" and the Queen Marys. In short, for "economic reasons." |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
You and I are on the same wavelength, here.
Even though the "Queen Mary"-types did not require conductors (the first one-man double-deckers in London did not appear until the 1960's) it would seem an obvious conclusion that these buses were still consuming more fuel than any of the single-deck coaches then in the FACCo fleet.
Also, I am curious as to which buses were more fuel efficient, the Old Looks or the MACKS?
I've always felt (personally) that the MACKS guzzled more diesel fuel than the Old Looks; of course, this is only my perception.....
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:17 am Post subject: |
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......we've also heard that a fleet that is "standardized" is more cost-efficient to operate and maintain than one that includes buses from several manufacturers.
Both FACCO and the "Tee-Yay" seemed to "swing" back and forth between GM and MACK for some years (FACCo, of course, also operated a small number of postwar WHITES, which further added to the overall "diversity" of the fleet)
In our discussions here, there is never much discussion regarding fuel efficiency within the fleets of decades ago.
As I had mentioned previously, I've always thought of the MACKS as being far more "thirsty" than the GM buses.....
"NYO" |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2465 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Which reminds me: After the Fishbowls became established, how much was their fuel consumption vs. those of the Flx New Look "Dangerfields"? |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | Which reminds me: After the Fishbowls became established, how much was their fuel consumption vs. those of the Flx New Look "Dangerfields"? |
W.B.:
I have often thought the same thing, regarding these buses.
Compared to today's oversized milk cartons/mutated insects, both types were truly "tanks".
It would be interesting also, to compare the fuel efficiency of the Fishbowls and "Dangerfields" with more modern MTA buses (including "hybrids")..........
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Quick "vintage flick" note:
In the 1938 Shirley Temple movie, "LITTLE MISS BROADWAY"*, there is a musical number (with Shirley as a passenger in a convertible) "If All The World Were Paper" featuring a background (stock footage) somewhere along Fifth Avenue.
A single-deck FACCo YELLOW is glimpsed, as well as a couple of "Queen Marys" and an older (closed top) double-decker that had later been converted from an open-deck bus.
Though a bit blurred, you can see TARS cars crossing 5th in the background; interestingly, in the "colorization" version, the buses are brown and cream! :shock
Still, a nostalgic glimpse of what once was........
"NYO"
*This is also the only Temple flick where the word "subway" was used a few times! |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a "Queen Mary" portrait from an obscure 1940 film, "SINGING WHEELS".......(note that these are NOT FACCo buses, as is evident from the roller sign!)
https://www.imcdb.org/i527564.jpg
(courtesy: imcdb.org)
["Go The Motor Coach Way"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2465 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:31 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Here's a "Queen Mary" portrait from an obscure 1940 film, "SINGING WHEELS".......(note that these are NOT FACCo buses, as is evident from the roller sign!)
https://www.imcdb.org/i527564.jpg
(courtesy: imcdb.org)
["Go The Motor Coach Way"] |
No, but they do look like Chicago Motor Coach . . . |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:09 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Interesting that FACCo route numbers never went as high as "53" (I think,the highest numbered FACCo route was the "20")
In the "Windy City", way back when, you not only had CMCCo buses on the streets, but, also, buses of the CSL (also, streetcars and trolleybses)
Of course, FACCo never came anywhere near the only trolleybuses in NYC (Brooklyn).
I'm now wondering if CMCCo retired their older open-top (or, at least, the non-"QM" types) about the same time that FACCo retired theirs, and, also, if their fleet was larger.......
"NYO"
["Go The Motor Coach Way"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2465 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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There is a list that may have a partial answer to that . . .
https://www.chicagorailfan.com/roscmc.html
While they mention the last CMC QM's being retired in 1950, they don't say when the last open-tops were (though some were converted to closed top as noted). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Thanks for this link!
So, the double-decker era in Chicago ended several years prior to that "Queen Mary"-types operating in New bYork.
FACCo, CMCCo, and London all, in later years, converted older open-top double-deckers into closed-top buses.
'Interestingly, in London, most of the older "converted" double-deckers still carried their open staircases until they were retired, despite the fact that their upper decks had been enclosed years before.....
"NYO"
["Go The Motor Coach Way"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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"Bells are a-ringin' "......
My curiousity is (again) aroused by this old book I've read too many times to count (the book centers on a Jewish family living on the Lower East Side, from 1911 through 1915, before moving uptown to the Bronx)
In one chapter (taking place during WW1) two buddies (soldiers on leave) are riding atop a FACCo. bus with their stylishly-dressed girlfriends.
The two couples up on the deserted upper deck began singing tunes of the day, soon accompanied by the conductor, who asks the couples to "come on downstairs", so that his pal, the driver could also join in (along with the other passengers)
The conductor informs the other passengers:
"You will now have the pleasure of hearing, for the first time, 'The Fifth Avenue Bus Singing Society'!"
When the passengers are singing "morning bells are ringing", the driver responds with "DING! DONG DING!", by clanging the warning bell under his foot.
The conductor responds with his own "DING! DONG! DING" by yanking his bell cord.
Now, I've seen a number of photos of the earliest of the FACCo motor buses equipped with bulb horns; according to this story, the FACCo buses of that era also had a warning bell used by the drivers.
I would guess that, about the time of the story (WW1) that electric klaxons were becoming more and more commonplace......
"NYO"
["3 5th & ST. NICHOLAS AVENUES"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22920 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:39 am Post subject: |
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In a circa-1940 "OUR GANG" short, "Goin' Fishin' " (which prominently figures an ex-LAMCC open-topper*) the harried conductor (played by Paul Hurst) uses a buzzer to signal the driver to start.
This bus was a later model double-decker, circa-mid/late 1920's......
"NYO"
*(For the short, the bus was lettered "INTER-CITY LINES") |
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