BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

........I just finished watching the classic "SEINFELD" episode, "THE SUBWAY" (I just received the complete series DVD set in the mail!)

A lot of 1990's-era subway nostalgia here; several quick clips showing the IRT Lex (one shot is at 14th St.), and a couple of quick action shots where "Redbirds" are seen, dashing along......aaahhh, I miss those days!

R-62's are seen several times throughout the episode.

I always get a big kick out of the studios (TV or movies) when they depict New York City subway car interiors; example: one interior segment shows the train signed for "5 UTICA AVE.", and the seating arrangement is, indeed, clearly (BMT/IND) "B" Division (a la R-44/46/68!) The live-action clip of the same train entering the station has the train signed for the "#6"!

The sound effects are quite authentic (I love the wheels screeching on curves, and the brakes squealing at a station stop!); this same grimy, grungy, interior set is used for another segment, with the train now signed: "#1 SOUTH FERRY".

Kramer's convoluted, insane directions to reach Coney Island by subway are hilarious, rattling off a number of lines and transfer points (Elaine points out that the "D" goes direct to Coney Island!)

Kramer also uses the time-honored designation ,"IRT"!

There is a quick "overhead" view (live footage) showing trains at the old Stillwell Avenue terminal, with the Wonder Wheel in the background.

One "live" station scene shows the classic 1950's-era Perley-Thomas turnstiles still in use (no Metrocards, yet!)

For anyone who has ever endured lengthy delays on-board, stuck between stations with no announcements being made, in a crowded, stuffy train, jammed to the gills, the part where Elaine (thinking to herself) rambles on and on about the delay, the people, and the lack of breathing room, this scene will truly hit home!

The episode truly had a lot of fun showcasing the many assorted characters (for want of a better word!) one usually encounters when riding the subways......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

One "subway scenario" I've long contemplated was having the a spur of IND (when the 8th Avenue line was being built) branch off at or near the 125th St. station, head west, and then terminate near the Hudson River.

Remember, at that time, 125th Street's waterfront was still busy with the heavily-used 125th St. ferry line to Edgewater, and, during the summer seasons, the excursion steamer services to Coney Island and the Hudson River Day line.

The 9th Avenue El, closest of the INTERBOROUGH elevated lines to the Hudson River, might also have had a spur, serving the 125th St. waterfront.

Until the late 1940's, TARS streetcars operated on 125th St. on the "X" line, and, later, SURFACE buses.

Then again, by December, 1950, the 125th St. Ferry (then operated by "ELECTRIC FERRIES") closed down (the excursion boats to Coney Island, by this late date, had been gone for a number of years.

The DAY LINE, on the other hand, did not abandon their 125th St. landing until 1964 (the landing at Yonkers was also closed at this time)

By now, the DAY LINE (now operated by the CIRCLE LINE) was down to only one boat, the classic old sidewheeler "ALEXANDER HAMILTON" (the newer "PETER STUYVESANT" had already been retired, and had been in lay-up for some time).

Today, the present MTA subways and buses serve 125th, but, as far as the waterfront is concerned, at W. 125th St., the need to directly serve it by any rapid transit connection directly is quite redundant.....

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Remember also, that the IRT's SOUTH FERRY and BOWLING GREEN stations were (are) but a stone's throw from the Battery Park promenade; into the 1960's, you not only had the "ferries" to the Statue of Liberty, you also had excursion boats of the WILSON LINES and KEANSBURG STEAMBOAT Co. docking here, also, the sightseeing "yachts" of the old PANORAMA LINE.

Those days are long gone; today, the CIRCLE LINE no longer operates the ferry to Liberty Island; corporate ties between the Statue ferry and CIRCLE LINE were severed in 1981......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Though the graceful paddlewheelers of the old "IRON STEAMBOAT COMPANY" continued to sail from Manhattan to Coney Island until 1932, the end had been a long time coming.

By the early 1900's, one could travel direct to Coney Island via either electrified BRT elevated trains and/or streetcars out of Park Row.

By about 1920, the new (since replaced) Stillwell Avenue terminal complex opened, further opening up Coney "to the masses".

Still, there were many, especially older folks, who enjoyed a leisurely boat ride out to Coney from Manhattan, preferring the open decks and fresh salt air to the hot, crowded rapid transit trains, even though the trains took far less time to reach Coney than did the slow-paced steamboats.

Also, it was also much cheaper to ride the subway/elevated trains out to Coney Island (5 cent fare); on the other hand, an early 20th century timetable for the boats had fares of 85 cents* (round trip) from Manhattan to Coney Island......

"NYO"

*It should be noted here that the round-trip boat fare also included addmission to the amusement parks, upon arrival at Coney Island

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Just came across this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Steamboat_Company *

*At one time, these boats also sailed to Long Branch, NJ, and to Rockaway Beach; also, read of the daily sailings up the Hudson, to where the Company had built a hotel over a railroad tunnel (north of Croton-On-Hudson)...........

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Just came across this interesting page (click on an image to start a sideshow); much, much "maritime" nostalgia here, including New York ferries, excursion boats, and much more......

www.mels-place.com/mmm/index.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

VERY interesting, in-depth historical page (w/illustrations)........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_River_Iron_Ship_Building_and_Engine_Works

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

......one of the things thst has long puzzled me regards the lack of an El on 12th Avenue (West St.)

Recall, back in the long-ago days of the West Side's bustling ferry slips, docks, and wharves, an elevated railway would have indeed provided convenient connections to not only the numerous trans-Hudson ferries then in operation, but, also, the many steamship piers.

Too, this also calls to mind why there were no elevated "spurs" at Cortlandt St., W. 42nd St., and W. 125th St.

Such spurs, IMHO, might have been quite busy at these locations, given the direct connections to trans-Hudson ferries and excursion steamers/night boats.

The only place in Manhattan where the Els connected directly to ferries was at South Ferry, where the trains of the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 9th Avenue elevated lines converged to connect with the ferryboats to Staten Island and Brooklyn.

The very last of the Els to serve South Ferry was the venerable 3rd Avenue line, which was cut back to City Hall in 1950, and, later, to Chatham Square.......

"NYO"

[South Ferry via City Hall"]

[N4 Jamaica]

Heading south, the shape of Manhattan Island cuts off 11th Avenue at 23rd Street. In researching the census addresses of my "Village" ancestors, I learned that some higher house numbers of east-west streets were eliminated as the docks needed an apron for either loading or dispatching wagons. The Ninth Avenue el kept its distance from the chaos of the docks.
---
In later years, the island grew into the North River as subway debris was dumped. However, earlier there was a period during which obstructive buildings were removed along "West Street" (or whatever it was called) so that the drayers and truckers and "logistics" from Amazon could maneuver.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Joe:

Correct; the 9th Avenue El was the closest any El ever got to the North (Hudson) River; recall, also (you mentioned subway construction debris being used as landfill) that was used to create obscure "U Thant Island" (once called "Belmont Island") in the East River.

This man-made island was created by dumping excavated materials from the then-abuilding Steinway Tunnels, which were to be used by trolleys between Manhattan and Queens.

These are the tunnels that became an integral part of the IRT's Flushing line (#7).......

"NYO"

["7 Times Square"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_Thant_Island

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Steinway tunnels history*......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinway_Tunnel

*Note that the original streetcar-sized tunnels had to be enlarged to accommodate subway trains; the first IRT trains ran through the tunnels in 1915.......

"NYO"

["7-Main St."]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Remember, also, when the original World Trade Center was being constructed in the late 1960's, the excavated material from the site near the old Hudson Terminal (PATH/H&M) was dumped into the Hudson, After the now-abandoned Liberty St. (CNJ) and Barclay St. (E-L) ferry terminals (along with the other old piers in the immediate area) were abandoned in 1967, that rubble filled in the river where the ferry slips and piers had been, setting the foundation for the future Battery Park City.

I remember that huge excavation was known as "The Bathtub", and, during the WTC's construction, the cast iron PATH tubes leading in and out of Hudson Terminal (closed 1971) were exposed and suspended in mid-air, while construction work was taking place.......

"NYO"

["Journal Sq.-Hudson Term"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

When the IND was being constructed, trucks loaded with rubble, muck, and other construction debris traveled to Pier #16, where the rubble was then dumped into scows.

Tugboats would pull these scows out to sea for ocean dumping, unless the subway contract specified a low spot that the City wished to have filled.

Interestingly, however, excavated material was also trucked from a subway digging site to a subway construction site, where back fill was needed, even if that location was a place being built by another contractor......

"NYO"

["C Jay St.-Boro Hall"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Recall, also, the massive amounts of muck excavated when the IRT, BMT, and IND subways were being extended under the East River to Brooklyn and Queens.

Especially complicated (and dangerous) was when new subway lines were being built beneath streets that carried El lines.

This was an exceptionally complicated operation when the IND's new 6th Avenue line was being built in the later 1930's.....

"NYO"

["Independent 6th Ave.Subway"]