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Club Transport, Surface Transit, TARS, etc.......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Em-Tee-Yay" comparison signage......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155875

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155132

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156200

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156187

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"All caps"/upper-and-lower case roller curtain comparisons, courtesy of the "Dangerfields"......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153943

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155502

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.............we must also give a nod to TARS, whose vintage streetcars carried "all caps" signs..... Wink

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116947

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116314

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Upper- and lower-case roller curtain ("Tee-Yay") comparisons from 1972.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154937

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154672

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As mentioned previously, TARS streetcars displayed bold, upper-case letters (and, also, numerals) for their streetcar dash signs.

This busy scene dates to circa-1947 (Southern Boulevard & Westchester Avenue)

Note, also, the SURFACE buses in the background.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116824

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In childhood, I once remarked to Dad about the clarity of those TARS route letters. He said they needed illumination. He would leave night class at CCNY and find T cars and K cars northbound on Amsterdam Avenue. The illuminated curtain destination sign was too small, and the large dashboard route sign was not illuminated. He needed a K to get home to Marble Hill.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
In childhood, I once remarked to Dad about the clarity of those TARS route letters. He said they needed illumination. He would leave night class at CCNY and find T cars and K cars northbound on Amsterdam Avenue. The illuminated curtain destination sign was too small, and the large dashboard route sign was not illuminated. He needed a K to get home to Marble Hill.


Joe:

Unlike TARS equipment, many companies furnished the dashes of their streetcars with three or four light bulbs, protected by a valance, that illuminated dash signs.

The older deck roof PS cars had wooden roof sign boards (front, rear, and sides), that had cut-out letters that were illuminated by the light of the clerestory.

Given the fact that TARS once operated a quite extensive streetcar network in a mostly urban area, it does (at least to me) seem a bit odd that TARS never, at any time, equipped their cars with any sort of illuminated signs*......

"NYO"

"Some cities, like Montreal, also equipped their cars with indirect dash lighting......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In places like Manhattan and the Bronx, where the streets were well-lit, perhaps TARS did not feel the need to provide their cars with any sort of illuminated signs.

However, on the Westchester lines, on stretches of track that were almost rural (as seen here) a destination/route sign would be difficult to see until the car was right on top of you.

Here, car #111 is seen operating on the "#2" line; note roller curtain reading "SUBWAY".........


https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116525

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TARS/SURFACE rollsigns.......

One area I do not think we've yet touched in our discussions of SURFACE, rollsigns, etc., is "comparison" roller curtain readings between TARS streetcars and SURFACE buses.

TARS streetcars displayed large route placards on their dashes, but had much smaller roller sign curtains, unlike the replacement buses.

When SURFACE buses took over a given streetcar route(s) I would assume that the rollsigns of the new buses displayed more information than the small roller curtains of the streetcars.

Again, I am only guessing.......

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was age ten during most of the bustitution of Manhattan and The Bronx. Sure, the curtain rollers on postwar Surface buses were illuminated by small incandescent bulbs, but the route print M100 etc was small. To put many destinations on a curtain sign, each destination had to be in small characters.
---
Dad worked at a racing newspaper, so he commented later favorably on the New Look signs on eastbound 34th Street buses, very clearly giving the odds, 16 to 1. Meaning M-16 to First Avenue. Someplace on nycsubway there is a photo of that sign.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a truly nostlgic "Olde New York" TARS photo from the 1940's, taken at 116th St.

Note the elaborate and ornate stone IRT station headhouse on the left (also, note the delightful little sign for the Henry Hudson Bridge)

A George Raft-wannabee* "poses"alongside TARS #567, operating on the "B" line (at extreme right, a bus is just visible)......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116782

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*Your's Truly used to dress in the exact same manner when commuting into the city, back in the day! Wink


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
I was age ten during most of the bustitution of Manhattan and The Bronx. Sure, the curtain rollers on postwar Surface buses were illuminated by small incandescent bulbs, but the route print M100 etc was small. To put many destinations on a curtain sign, each destination had to be in small characters.
---
Dad worked at a racing newspaper, so he commented later favorably on the New Look signs on eastbound 34th Street buses, very clearly giving the odds, 16 to 1. Meaning M-16 to First Avenue. Someplace on nycsubway there is a photo of that sign.


Joe:

QUITE interesting memory/trivia...thanks for sharing! Wink

We've often discussed here the large side roller curtains carried by the "batwing" buses of the "Tee-Yay"; these always reminded me of the large sign boxes once carried by center entrance streetcars in many cities.

I've seen very old photos of early electric New York streetcars where the front destination sign (roof mounted) was illuminated by an overhanging bulb/bulbs......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we see an early example of illuminated streetcar destination signs at the Shore Line Trolley Museum (car #316, Union Ry.); note how the "solid" sign is illuminated by bulbs which are protected by a valance......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26175

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though the BMT's Standards were, of course, not equipped with any sort of end signs, some cars received these temporary illuminated signs for service to the 1939/1940 World's Fair......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?132267

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MONTREAL TRAMWAYS' cars utilized indirect dash lighting.

Had TARS cars had been so equipped (especially those cars assigned to the lower Westchester routes) the dash-mounted route signs would then have been easily read after dark.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?53146

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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