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MaBSTOA Nostalgia ("Take 2")
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2406
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
34th St. & 1st, 1971.........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155909

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

And notice - 'to 1 AVE' on the batwinged bus, 'to 1st AVE' on the 5300 series bus behind it. Shows when which front roll sign was made when. (The '1 AVE' was the newer one.)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22512
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Broadway & 23rd St., 1972 (note #8571's conflicting front/rear signs)......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154182

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

Actually, it was the same route, but the number changed: (QM)15 listed on the side sign, the renumbering as M32 on the front. That was updated. The side sign was not. This was actually taken May 6, 1974 - nearly two months before QM15 became M32. The front and (non-batwing) side roll signs with these new numbers were prepared some three months in advance of the changes taking place. And yet the side signs STILL said 'M10 Bway' and 132nd Street depot front roll signs listed an 'M10 135 St Only' and 'M10 168 Street' - the only "duplicative" route not to have been renumbered.


W.B.:

Once again, I am MOST impressed by your intense knowledge of vintage rollsign readings, route changes, etc......it truly can stagger the senses (mine, anyway!)

Here in "JoiseY', PS never had to contend with such complicated route/number changes; the most changes that they DID encounter was when the last surface streetcar lines were converted over to buses.

In many cases, the buses traveled almost the same routes that the streetcars did; however, thre were exceptions.

Example:

In 1949, when PS converted the remaining HUDSON Division streetcar lines to buses, this, of course, meant that the lofty Hoboken El would be abandoned.

After losing their straight-and-narrow, non-motor traffic route direct to the DL&W Terminal/H&M station, the replacement buses, as they neared Hoboken, now had to employ different routings, traveling on streets that the streetcars did not run on.

The "#17 SUMMIT" (formerly the "SUMMIT" car line) now required more time to travel between 32nd St. in Union City and the Hoboken Terminal; a VERY convoluted route was now involved to reach the DL&W (later E-L) terminal.

I was very, very familiar with this bus line when I was growing up (4509's were used right up until the end, circa-early 1970's)

Like the rest of the HUDSON Division's bus lines, the last four streetcar lines were also given numbers, in 1949.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...........In the late 1940's/early 1950's, when PSNJ converted the last subway-surface streetcar lines in Newark, travel times on all these lines was increased, because, now that the streetcars were gone, the replacement buses could not enjoy a private ROW routing downtown, as was possible with the streetcars, and had to contend with other motor traffic and traffic lights....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While on the same "track", so to speak...... Wink

When SURFACE buses replaced TARS streetcars, the buses, like the streetcars they replaced, also had to contend with heavy traffic and traffic signals.

Unlike PS, TARS cars never enjoyed the "luxury" of operating via a subway, thus eliminating much traffic and encounters with traffic lights.....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

125th St., 1949.

Though I've used this picture elsewhere in other topics, I wanted to include it again here.

As is obvious, the replacement buses, like the streetcars they replaced, still had to contend with traffic; however, not being double-ended as the streetcar were, they now had to "loop" at each end of the line.

Note that (for the time being) the now-redundant TARS conduit tracks are still in place......

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/tars/htm/tars153.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TARS streetcars laying over at the W.42nd St. end of the line, at the NYCRR West Shore Ferry Terminal, in the late 1940's.

Note the NYO buses in the right background....

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/tars/htm/tars001.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoT buses at the West Shore Ferry Terminal (W.42nd ST.), circa-1948......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156615

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SURFACE buses and TARS streetcars, here seen in in brief co-existence together, at W. Farms Square, late 1940's......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116553

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway & 96th St., 1969.

One wonders, back in 1969 (a great year for the Amazin' Mets, btw!) how many of the older MaBSTOA drivers started out with SURFACE, or, perhaps, as young men, started out on the TARS cars.

Surely, older MaBSTOA passengers, in 1969, could still recall the old TARS streetcars......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155824

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Concourse & Fordham, circa-1970.

Note the old circular "BUS STOP" sign........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155562

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Park Row & Beekman, 1969.

Note "regular" reading displayed on #6870's front sign, while offside rear sign reads "SPECIAL".

Also, note the rear advertising card for "ZORBA"/"CABARET"/"FIDDLER ON THE ROOF".......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155588

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Columbus Avenue & 66th St., 1972.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156206

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

167th & Bryant, 1972*.

Here, #8364's front curtains reads: "35 WESTCHESTER AVE", while the offside rear sign displays "41".........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155569

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*Might have there been some sort of "altercation" between #8364 and the sedan just in front?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Union Square W. & 14th St., 1972......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156142

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway & Chambers, 1972*.

Here, #6747's front curtain reads: "6 to SOUTH FERRY", while the rear offside sign only shows a "6", as if the rest of the curtain had been removed....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155622

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*The "Tee-Yay" inspector/dispatcher (or whatever) seems to be in deep concentration of some sort.
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