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London's Trolleybuses and Tubes
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In London, can a rider judge Underground vs. Tube by the shape of the doors? I see many doors that are bent inwards.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
In London, can a rider judge Underground vs. Tube by the shape of the doors? I see many doors that are bent inwards.


Joe:

Good observation.

Only the rolling stock of the "deep level" tubes have the distinct inward-curving doors; the "surface" stock (such as the trains used on the "District" line) have doors that have only the very slightest "bend" in them, towards the roof line (not found on all stock)

The "surface stock" were/are the closest in overall design to "typical" American rapid transit stock.

Interestingly, back in the days when Underground carriages were hauled by steam, the tops of their doors were rounded.

As you might well imagine, the interiors of the squat "Tube" stock are vastly different from the interiors found on "surface" stock.....

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:21 am; edited 4 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
In London, can a rider judge Underground vs. Tube by the shape of the doors? I see many doors that are bent inwards.


Joe:

Note the photo (right-hand side of page) showing a "sub-surface" train alongside a "deep-level" Tube train; the design and dimension differences are quite distinct, here......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_infrastructure *

*This is also an excellent page on the "inner workings" of the Underground (read, also, on the differences between the "surface" lines and the "deep-level" Tube network)......


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two above-ground photos showing the different dimensions and contours of "sub-surface" and "deep-level" stock in London......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?120139

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?119705

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare the interiors of the "sub-surface" and "deep level Tube" stock shown here.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?120905

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?120895

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Tube" diameters.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23605

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the lone surviving example of one of the 1890-vintage City & South London Ry's diminutive electric locomotives; these compact engines hauled small coaches known as "padded cells" (I mentioned this previously) that were equipped with gates at both ends.

Note, here, the air-brake pipe, which connected to the first coach.

(Oddly enough, the "drivers" of these small locos faced the side, when operating the train!).....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23629

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a photo of the interior of the 1890 C&SL Ry engine seen in the previous photo, taken while it was undergoing restoration......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23631

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this rare 1932 photo, we see a train of Bakerloo line "Standard Stock" at Queen's Park.

Note that this Tube line was jointly operated by the LMSR (London Midland Scottish Ry) and the LPTB (London Public Transport Board)

This was a similar arrangement to the joint PRR/H&M/PATH "joint service" to Newark, which vanished in 1967......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?115538

(courtesy: nycubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare these two photos of the deep-level Tube station at St. John's Wood, with the H&M/PATH station at Exchange Place (Jersey City), taken prior to the extensive modernization program of later years.......

St. John's Wood (London):

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?28890

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?28891

Exchange Place, Jersey City (H&M/PATH).......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?145912

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45897

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?143846

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two views of "District" line (sub-surface) route stations in London; these Underground stations are more atkin to the subway stations found in New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Chicago........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?141394

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?54077

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These photos show two vintage "Standard Stock" (pre-1938) "DM" (Driving Motor) Tube cars, today preserved.

Until 1938, all of the Underground's "DM" tube cars were of a design (which dated back to 1903) placing all of the electrical gear above floor level, situated between the cab area and the passenger compartment (as all London tube trains have always had full-width cabs, "railfan windows" were unheard of on "deep level" equipment.

It was not until the arrival of the 1938 Stock that "deep level" tube trains were built with all electrical gear under the floors......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23612

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23623

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The London Overground (East London line) was, at one time, part of the Underground.

Interesting page........

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/London_Overground

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These long-lived cars operated on the "sub-surface" lines; notice that the cars' interiors featured commuter coach-style seating, which resulted in very narrow aisles.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_A60_and_A62_Stock


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, between 1924 and 1928, an independent London bus company, "OvergrounD", was in operation.

The "OvergrounD" lettering on the buses imitated the style of lettering used for the "UndergrounD"; in 1928, the company, with its fleet of 36 buses, was sold to the LGOC ("General")........

"NYO"
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