BusTalk

[traildriver]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[traildriver]

(Sigh)...yes...you can see it in the dwindling attendance at various bus, rail, antique auto, maritime, and other historical association meetings...new members come in, but not as fast as older members are gone.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

traildriver:

A perfect example of this is the ERA's NY Chapter; recall, decades ago, the many jam-packed fantrips, and the tremendous variety of vintage equipment used.

Today, the ERA is but a mere whisper of what it once was, and, aside from the "Museum Trains", there is really nothing else "vintage" to charter for fantrips.

I also do not feel optimistic about the vintage buses running during the holidays; between the COVID, mechanical issues, and other problems, I don't see a rosy future regarding the preserved buses, either.

You and I are both greatly interested in NYC's maritime history; think of it.....what is left today?

The Staten Island Ferry, thankfully, carries on the tradition of double-ended boats, but what else is there?

There are, of course, the small passenger ferries, which, IMHO, are more of a waterborne bus than a "ferryboat"

The tug population in the Harbor has dwindled to almost nothing, compared to what it was 60 years ago; CUNARD still sails across the North Atlantic, after a fashion, and there are, of course, the cruise ships.

But all the other great steamship companies are now long gone, as is the fabled HUDSON RIVER DAY LINE; the CIRCLE LINE is still with us, albeit with modern vessels (How I loved the old converted WW2 craft!)

Older enthusiasts/historians like us still retain our keen interests, but, unless a younger enthusiast also is interested in the maritime history of the area, he will either have to adapt to what remains, or be bored out of his skull.

I hate seeing panoramic views of the Hudson on television news; outside of one or two boats (maybe three or four, if that) the once-bustling Hudson now seems as to be as still and as silent as a mountain stream.........so much has disappeared, in only the past few decades; how much we took for granted.....

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Fellows:

Please allow Your's Truly to share a few views with you (thanks in advance!)

Die-hard, "old school" bus historians/enthusiasts such as the late, legendary Jim Lehrer (RIP, Jim) are, even as I type these words, fast disappearing from our midst.

One of the greatest acheivments (IMHO) of the late Mr. Lehrer was that he delved deeply into the rich histories of many now-obscure, long-defunct intercity carriers.

Though, of course, he was a dedicated student of GREYHOUND and TRAILWAYS, he also scoured the countryside (literally) looking for fading remnants of these long-gone intercity bus lines, also writing to countless societies and individuals who might help him in his ongoing quest to document the fascinating history of thee fabled long-haul bus companies.

If the illustrious Mr. Lehrer was still here with us today, he would certainly tell us NOT to take a vintage bus timetable at "face value" only; quite often, these paper relics of the past (especially GREYHOUND and TRAILWAYS) also contain a wealth of information, regarding the long-vanished connecting companies.

With CONTINENTAL TRAILWAYS now long gone, and GREYHOUND but a mere shadow of what it once was, the memorabilia associated with them (including vintage toy buses!) are, today, far more than "collectibles".

They are, in fact, not only rare and valuable relics of a long-lost era in American bus transportation, but also, American history as well.

This is why I feel that preserving what we can of the past is of great importance, especially older fellows such as us, who can still recall colorful vestiges of the old days.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

.......IMHO, the once-mighty GREYHOUND is, more or less, an honorary "fallen flag".

It is impossible to compare today's operations with the far-flung, far-reaching, cross-country network of 60 years ago; what once was no longer exists.

To say GREYHOUND was/is iconic is indeed an understatement; 60 years ago, no one, I am sure 9be it executive, employee, or passenger) could have forseen the day when GREYHOUND would be in its present state......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

....I am sure that we must have discussed this in other related threads on this board in the past, but I'm thinking now about GREYHOUND "driver changes" on the long-haul through runs.

Were all drivers "swapped" only in the larger cities, or, way back in the day, were there any "driver swaps" in the smaller cities and towns?

How did GREYHOUND determine the length of time that a driver could operate his coach, before he needed to be relieved?

How much "layover" time did a driver have on, let's say, a trip from New York to Boston, or, on a longer run where a change of driver would have been a given?

Appreciate info......

"NYO"

[traildriver]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

traildriver:

Appreciate the detailed info....thanks!

You mentioned "short" runs; in the book "AMERICAN BUSES" (David Jacobs, 1985) there is a photo of a GREYHOUND driver (Bob Ames) at the PABT.

The photo caption says:

"........Bob works out of the Port Authority Terminal in Manhattan, usually on short-haul, local trips......."

There is also a photo showing an older, "veteran" GREYHOUND driver (E. J. Ross), who had then been driving for 37 years (this means, that, when this book was published in 1985, this old 'Hound vet would have been driving ACF-BRILLS, YELLOWS, Flxibles, Silversides, Scenicruisers, 4104's, and probably just about anything else GREYHOUND was then operating!)

Imagine the stories that this old-timer could have shared with us today!

This fellow, according to the photo caption, mostly operated out of Dallas, and mostly to Memphis.

Mr. Ross was then running a "tight ship", scheduled-wise, four days on, two days off.

Also, there is a photo of a GREYHOUND driver behind the wheel, with the caption: ".....a tired driver is a dangerous driver. After all, GREYHOUND knows America best....."

How dated these mid-1980's photos are, depicting classic MCI's in all their glory.....

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The following "bits" on TRAILWAYS are also from the aforementioned book, "AMERICAN BUSES" (1985).......

"......Trailways, Incorporated is the second-largest bus company in the United States, and is owned and operated by the Trailways Corporation. They also own Eagle International and Trailways Manufacturing, Incorporated, both of which manufacturer their Eagle buses......."

(the following refers to a photo showing the rear of a Model 05)

".....pretend rear windows of the Model 05, which no one can see in or out of. The later versions don't have the window split, though......"

Two other photos are captioned thus:

".......the fabulous Trailways Eagle Model 10, said to be the most advanced intercity bus on the highways of America....."

"....the Model 10 has self-sealing luggage compartments to exclude dust and contaminants, and is reported that there's more room available than in most other bus designs....."

"NYO"

[traildriver]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

traildriver:

As always, appreciate the interesting input!

Recall how "exotic" the very first EAGLE coaches (Kassbohrer) appeared, when they debuted in the late 1950's?

The later Eagles (regardless of where they were built) indeed had a more distinct "American" look to them.

In 1962, as you know, CONTINENTAL TRAILWAYS established its own factory in Belgium, with the help of a Belgian partner, La Brugeoise, giving it the name"BUS & CAR, NV".

The first BUS & CAR vehicles were almost identical to the earlier models, except for the introduction of a wraparound mesh grill, which remained an EAGLE spotting feature until 1969.

Here's an interesting "local" bit of EAGLE trivia from "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES" (Stauss):

".......after 1985, most sales switched to the wider Model 15, but some demand remained for the Model 10, for use in 'tight spots' such as New York's Lincoln and Holland Tunnels......" (recall, quite a few years back, NJT also operated EAGLE coaches in commutter service)

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Greetings from Philly, 1950's..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?19829

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[traildriver]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

traildriver:

GREAT old memories and wonderful details on "how it was", back in the day!

If I could go back in time, I know I'd want to see.....and hear......all that you described; how much was taken for granted, when it still existed.

I'm sure the storage yard must have been a bus-enthusiast's' paradise, back in the "olden days", especially back in the 50's and 60's!

I made two weekend trips to Philly, during the summer of 1982.

Though I didn't get to ride any buses (or trackless trolleys), I DID have a ball riding the prewar BSS cars, "Almond Joys", and ex-P&W Bullets and Straffords (didn't get to ride the PCC's or Red rrow, though)

How pleased I am that I was able to experience "classic era" equipment, before it disappeared forever.

The only "sour note" was a VERY snotty young conductor at Reading Terminal, who would not allow me to take even ONE picture, even though I explained I was only in town over the weekend.

Attitudes like that can always strike a sour note in an otherwise enjoyable "rail jaunt" (being courteous to this arrogant little ^%&%#%@! was an effort, believe me!)

I also visited the old Wannamaker's, and an older gentleman was there that day, who also happened to be the organist who played that famous old organ, up above the main floor; even gave a little "demo"!

Now here was a TRUE gentlemen!

Back in 1968. Mom and I rode an EAGLE down from New York to spnd the day in Philly; was a lot of fun, even though we didn't gt to ride any local transit (I still recall an older waitress at a restaurant we ate at talking about "Old Broad" ( Broad St. station)

This was my first and ONLY "Eagle" trip, and you may be sure I enjoyed it all (I STILL have the tin litho EAGLE Mom bought me a a souvenier!)

To say I have no desire to visit Philly today (or, really, any other city for that matter) is indeed an understatement.

Too much has changed, and too much has vanished forever.

Thank heavens for photos and memories!

"NYO"