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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2421 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: |
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And here, folks, is what we mean by Manhattan's Third Avenue being of a whole different world from "da Bronx'."
The 101A (today's M102) debuted March 2, 1969, was a replacement for the Fifth-Madison-Lenox ex-NYCO #2 - and a de facto revival, nearly nine years after the one-way conversions and Third and Lexington, of the old NYCO #4 route, only as constituted north of 24th Street (the southbound termini of the old #4 and the newer 101A / M102 being way different) and traveling NB on Third. Its creation seemed to have enabled the regular 101 to be pared down, in its southern terminus, to 6th Street at Cooper Union, if based on so many '101 to 6 St's' after '69 while the "new" route blared '101A to City Hall'.
(The ex-NYCO #2's demise, B.T.W., is why on some front roll signs after 1969 on #2A runs there was a blank spot to the right, thus making the destination signs seem shifted to the left - it was to cover up 'via 7 Ave'.) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
As usual, greatly appreciate your historical input.
Regarding the differences between 3rd Avenue in Manhattan and 3rd Avenue in "da Bronx", when the Manhattan portion of the 3rd Avenue El (that is, what hadn't already been pruned back from South Ferry and City Hall) how did this effect bus service in that territory?
Interesting, too, that, even though it took a number of years, the old BMT Jamaica El (at least, a portion of it) was eventually replaced by the new Archer Avenue subway; whereas, in the Bronx, the 3rd Avenue El was simply abandoned, with no alternate subway replacement.......
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:15 am Post subject: |
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See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Avenue_Line *
*Here, in this article (when the section of the El was abandoned) it also mentions the "Q49" bus as being ".......distinct from the modern 'Q49' route.........." |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: |
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In 1980, we see two-tone blue Fishbowl #3721 in the company of now-redundant Jamaica El columns (Parsons & Jamaica, 1980).......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154291
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2421 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
As usual, greatly appreciate your historical input.
Regarding the differences between 3rd Avenue in Manhattan and 3rd Avenue in "da Bronx", when the Manhattan portion of the 3rd Avenue El (that is, what hadn't already been pruned back from South Ferry and City Hall) how did this effect bus service in that territory?
Interesting, too, that, even though it took a number of years, the old BMT Jamaica El (at least, a portion of it) was eventually replaced by the new Archer Avenue subway; whereas, in the Bronx, the 3rd Avenue El was simply abandoned, with no alternate subway replacement.......
"NYO" |
Keep in mind while all this was happening about the Third Avenue el in Manhattan being wound down in preparation for shutting it all down altogether, Surface Transportation was still in bankruptcy (since 1949; Fifth Avenue Coach Lines wouldn't take it over until the el was long gone from Manhattan) and keeping everything together with string and tape, basically; the beat-up condition of the oldest in the fleet would be the end result. So it seems service along Third Avenue was as usually to have been back then. They would have been more directly in the "line of fire" el-wise than either the BOT/"Tee-Yay's" First and Second Avenues route or NYCO's two Lexington Avenue lines (the other of which - #3 - was, as I may have said, essentially and effectively rebooted as a "short-run" M-101 branch running between 125th and 23rd Streets following the 1960 one-way conversions). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
I always thought it interesting that the Manhattan portion of the 3rd Avenue El was pruned back to Chatham Square, eliminating service to South Ferry, and, then, later, City Hall (via the City Hall branch), whereas, in the Bronx, the entire 3rd Avenue line went en masse in 1973.
It would be interesting to read reports/reminisces of those former (Bronx) El riders who now had to take the buses, on the first morning of no El service (had the line closed in December, you might have had carolers singing, "No El! No El!")
That the Bronx section of the 3rd Avenue El lasted in service nearly 20 years after the Manhattan portion shut down (1955) always amazes me.
Recall, too, that the 2nd Avenue Subway was to have replaced the 3rd Avenue El; today, only a miniscule section is in use ("The Second Avenue STUBway
I've read, also, that the new 2nd Avenue subway was to have eased overcrowding on the IRT Lexington Avenue line; it' interesting, too, to think that, while the 2nd Avenue El ceased running in 1942 (nearly 80 years ago) and there is still no "full length" subway to replace the El.......
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:19 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: |
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See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway
(and, to think, it only took several decades to open THREE new stations!)
I know that ongoing fiscal issues and, as usual, politics, played a hefty role, here, involving the Second Avenue Subway.
Meanwhile, it only took a few years to open the first section of the INTERBOROUGH subway, which served multiple stations...uptown, midtown, and downtown).......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Mention must be made of the sleek R-11 (R-34); this miniscule "fleet" were supposed to be the prototypes for an entire fleet of new cars, to equip the Second Avenue Subway.......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24383
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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X-Astorian
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 168 Location: Central NJ
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
I always thought it interesting that the Manhattan portion of the 3rd Avenue El was pruned back to Chatham Square, eliminating service to South Ferry, and, then, later, City Hall (via the City Hall branch), whereas, in the Bronx, the entire 3rd Avenue line went en masse in 1973.
"NYO" |
Well, almost en masse. The el's Bronx Park spur closed in November 1951. Of course, night-time and weekend service below 149th Street ended in March 1952 but that didn't involve complete abandonment along that part of the route until May 1955. Alas. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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.....right you are; I had forgotten about the El's Bronx Park spur.
On a related note, I always found it interesting that the Second Avenue El was the only INTERBOROUGH El line to enter Queens (via the Queensborough Bridge); the last trains over the span made their final runs in 1942.......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22630 Location: NEW JOISEY
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