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October 31, 1956: An Era Ends In Brooklyn
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13625
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

........the "Tee-Yay" retired the last of the MACKS several years prior to the retirement of the remaining Old Looks; I would imagine that spare part for the MACKS were starting to get harder to obtain at this late date.

Too, I also think of why the "Tee-Yay" simply did not purchase only GM products, through the 1950's.....

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1791
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
........the "Tee-Yay" retired the last of the MACKS several years prior to the retirement of the remaining Old Looks; I would imagine that spare part for the MACKS were starting to get harder to obtain at this late date.

Too, I also think of why the "Tee-Yay" simply did not purchase only GM products, through the 1950's.....

"NYO"


While it was evident by their dominant sales, that the GM Coach was clearly the 'best' available at the time, by most measures, it was probably not a good idea for GM to have a complete monopoly on the business. Even GM did not want that to happen, as it would result in more heavy handed government action than it already endured.

It is always desirable to have at least two choices when purchasing anything.
Competition means better products, and better prices. And if one manufacturer can't meet the demand for whatever reason, including strikes, it is good to have some alternative supplier's...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13625
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Good points! Wink

Recall, many eons ago, the many US bus builders, including:

YELLOW

GM

ACF (later ACF-BRILL)

WHITE

MACK

MARMON-HERRINGTON

TWIN COACH

REO (LAFAYETTE & GREENVILLE once operated these)

In my area of New Jersey, back in the 60's, even though GM clearly dominated, most fleets were "mixed", also rostering buses of several (defunct) builders.

My memory recalls that the MACKS, WHITES, and ACF-BRILLS in my area all vanished by 1968..........

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surface Transportation / Surface Transit sure had their share of Macks and Twin Coaches (the latter pretty much all concentrated in The Bronx). Even FACCo and NYCO had a few White buses (especially from the late 1930's, and on certain crosstown routes), and FACCo bought some Macks for use on their Queens routes in the early '50's (and at least a few newer Whites). That's not even counting the 'test' Flxible bus that ran on some FACL lines in Manhattan in 1961 (of which some pictures sure exist within here).

How does one explain the 1964-65 period where the 'Tee-Yay' added Flxible buses to their roster, but MaBSTOA stayed with GM (not ordering from Flxible till 1969-70)?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Regarding newer WHITES:

I always thought that FACCo's "streamlined" 1953 WHITE 1150-D-7's (used on the #15) were true fleet oddballs; NHBL, here in New Jersey, once rostered several similar buses.

Regarding "Tee-Yay" and MaBSTOA, and the GM's and Flex New Looks, I have also been puzzled....

"NYO"
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 499
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting all of the interesting historical info!
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13625
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

......you are most welcome. my friend! Wink

However, our good friend (and resident "Tee-Yay" expert) W.B. Fishbowl is the true "pro", here.....this fellow's vast storehouse of knowledge, regarding "Noo Yawk" bus operations in decades past is light-years beyond impressive! Very Happy

"NYO"
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kdr3bt



Age: 70
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Westchester Street Transportation had Fageol Twin Coach and Mack coaches that were hand me downs from Surface Transit.
These coaches were garaged at Garden Avenue on the TARS trolley barn property in Mt. Vernon. There were GM old looks from Surface and FACCO as well.
Yonkers Railroad/Transit was all Mack until Mack exited the bus business in 1960. They had a fire in the Yonkers garage destroying some Mack coaches.
I remember seeing some Mack new looks as well. Not sure if these were just a regular order or were ordered as replacements for the coaches lost in the fire.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

........."hand-me-downs" were indeed the byword for the long-defunct "WASHINGTON STREET" lines in Hoboken (the line was only 14 blocks long!)

Well into the 1960's, I remember them operating a very diverse fleet of second-hand buses, some of which dated to the mid/late 1930's! Shocked

Later on, I can remember this company also operating Old Looks from PSNJ, as well as from some New York-area operators.....t'was a loooong time ago, and I'm thankful for all the great memories I have! Wink

Jersey City's "LAFAYETTE & GREENVILLE" also, for a time, operated some ex-"Tee-Yay" Old Looks.......

"NYO"
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 67
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correction to the Westchester Street Transportation (WST) fleet.

Prior to 1962 the fleet was made up of brand new buses. Several demos that operated first for Surface then transferred or sold to WST.

The fleet included…

#s 50-84 GM TDH-3610… 1946

200-219 Twin 45-S… 1950

85-87 Mack C-37… 1949

88-89 Mack C-33… 1950

90 Mack C-37… 1950… demo

91 Mack C-41… 1950… demo

92-116 Mack C-45… 1951

From 1962 to 1968 WST received quite a number of second hand buses, 114 ex Fifth Avenue Coach; ex-Eastern Mass (transit); Queens Transit; Public Service.

In 1969, after Liberty Coaches took over more second hand buses arrived from Coast Cities Coaches; Detroit Street Railway and Easter Mass (parlors).
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....earlier, I'd mentioned postwar TWIN COACHES.

In my area of NJ, no company operated them.

AFAIK, the only NJ bus company to operate them was SOMERSET; in 1952, they took delivery of 8 Model "FS-40" suburban model-FAGEOLINERS......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....in the 1950's, many retired trolleybuses from US properties made their way "South of the border", to serve out many more years of service; I've always wondered why there were no buyers for the Brooklyn trolleybuses, after they were retired in 1960.

These vehicles were barely more than a decade old, when they last ran......

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
........a view of #1010 in much happier days; also, note the Old Look dimly visible in the background (note that photo caption info came from our late friend and leading bus historian, Mr. Linsky)......

https://newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt346.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)

And as I've said, the Peter Witts and PCC's on their exteriors used the serif numerals for car numbers that would later be carried over to the 'Tee-Yay' for their bus fleets (both Old Look and 'Fishbowl') and, after 1963, MaBSTOA. One of those fonts that are lost these days.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I was always quite particular to those fonts myself.

The remaining Peter Witts lasted into the 1950's in revenue service; however, by the time the last streetcars ran in 1956, only PCC's remained (the two-level 9th Avenue depot was the last operating car house in Brooklyn)

The postwar St. Louis-built trolley buses (#3000-3199) were still fairly new when they were replaced with diesel buses in 1960; when the last trolley buses ran, the era of electric-powered street transport in Brooklyn came to an end......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few color photos of B&QT single-end Peter Witts (6000 series).......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?117804

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?117310

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?33343

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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